Hazolah's Respond To The South Fallsburg +Very Serious MVA+
Discussion about Hazolah"s respond to the very serious accident in South Fallsburg.
Please refrain to an intelligible standard, we will have to delete anything that isn't in the roam of conversation, just hate, stupidity and bashing one each other.
Please refrain to an intelligible standard, we will have to delete anything that isn't in the roam of conversation, just hate, stupidity and bashing one each other.
posted by VOS IZ NEIAS @ 7/24/2005 08:57:00 PM
603 Comments:
At 9:21 PM,
Anonymous said…
3 Hatzolah buses+ 6 paramedics+ 2 choppers
At 10:07 PM,
Anonymous said…
anyone know any info on the condition of the wife? She was airlifted to westchester.
At 10:16 PM,
Anonymous said…
Pesach Goldberg is the name. He is a reebe and madrich in Camp Shalvah. He is a son of reb Shlomeleh Goldberg from Montreal.
He was making a bar mitzvah tonight and they were just minutes out of Camp Shalva by the blinker on the 42.
He was DOA and his wife is in critical airlifted to Westchester. The 5 children are in Harris with minor injuries.
At 10:20 PM,
Anonymous said…
teshuva vtzedokah mavirein hagzeroh
At 10:28 PM,
Anonymous said…
I belive he was also a gabbai tzeduka for Reb Meir bal Haness.
At 10:46 PM,
Anonymous said…
where & when was the bar mitzva supposed to be?
At 10:47 PM,
Anonymous said…
was there a second vehicle involved?
At 10:47 PM,
Anonymous said…
the bar mitzvah was supposed to be tonight at the hotel chalet
At 10:48 PM,
Anonymous said…
anybody know anything about the wife???
At 10:50 PM,
Anonymous said…
yes he is from mair ball hanes and his wife and the bar mitzva boy were taking by chopper to westchter burh den yuemas we never know what going to be in our next 5 min
At 10:53 PM,
Anonymous said…
the boy is in harris hospital, only the wife was airlifted.
At 10:57 PM,
Anonymous said…
anybody know the name of the wife Mrs. Goldberg?
At 11:02 PM,
Anonymous said…
Please be mispallel for Chaya Tobeh bas Sarah Rifka. she is currently undergoing a cat-scan in Westchecter.
One of the kids has a broken foot.
At 11:02 PM,
Anonymous said…
her maiden name is Weiss from Pupa Williamsburg
At 11:04 PM,
Anonymous said…
her name is Chaya Tobeh bas Sarah Rifka
At 12:09 AM,
Anonymous said…
does anybody have info when and where is the Levaia
At 12:10 AM,
Anonymous said…
anybody know how the accident happend?
At 12:12 AM,
Anonymous said…
many tragic accidents happening in sullivan county this summer. i am familiar with that intersection in
the winter is very quiet. in the summertime when the population explodes perhaps a traffic light is necessary? also i would like to know if everybody is using seatbelts and caution driving in sullivan county? i know i am becoming leery of driving on the rt 42 corridor.
At 12:13 AM,
Anonymous said…
it comes to show that after 2 incidents this summer from the bobover community,that peace has to be made and the fighting over nonsense should stop immediately.
At 12:16 AM,
Anonymous said…
They don't know yet when the levayeh will be. It depends when the ME will come to Harris.
There might first be a levayeh in shalva and then in BP.
The other car sverved into his lane to avoid a biker on the side of the road.
One bucher is being transferred to Westchester with a broken tip of the hip.
The mother could use some teffilos. Chaya Tobe bas Sureh Rifkeh
At 12:19 AM,
Anonymous said…
just spoke to a family member, the mother is very critical, but doctors are very hopeful that she will makeit AY"H, the bar mitzvah boy is okay, another older bocher is being tranferd now for palvic surgery,
At 12:20 AM,
Anonymous said…
the le-vayeh is not gonna be be4 2pm
At 12:20 AM,
Anonymous said…
fighting over nonsense has nothing to do with the careful or carelessness of the summer population driving in sullivan county. safe driving is the most important preventitive way to avoid these tragedies. are all of these amounts of children legally allowed vehicles and are they properly seatbelted or carseated in.
At 12:22 AM,
Anonymous said…
his nephew was nebech that yunger-man that was crushed by a bus in boro-park this past winter RCH"L..
At 12:33 AM,
Anonymous said…
Your'e absolutly right that carfullness has nothing to do with machloykes, but a little sychel is needed to realize that such tragedies only come from machloykes. It could have been less serious were there no machloykes. Doesn't everyone see that Hashem is sending us a sign to stop fighting?? Look what's going on by Satmar! How many INNOCENT people nebach, who have absolutly no connection whatsoever to the rebbes are nebach involved in tragedies, for what????? STUPID MACHLOYKES!! Stop the machloykes and these tragedies will stop!!! Think about it!
At 12:43 AM,
Anonymous said…
It amazes me how u all know exactly why hashem is punishing us.. i mean come'on ppl we all have to look at ourselves and stop blaming others we should start davening with mire kavannah and giving more tsdukah and learning more torah and stop being nasty to each other - everyone should fix himself and hashem will have rachmunes on us.. amen
At 12:43 AM,
Anonymous said…
who was the other car involved?
At 1:04 AM,
Anonymous said…
time and place of the levayeh?
At 2:09 AM,
Anonymous said…
the one who said machlokes should rather quit his subscription to internet its a lot whorse then machlokes
At 4:20 AM,
Anonymous said…
machlokes is a very bad thing We arenot the judges to judge why it happened.and we are definely dont have the right to be makatrig. and say whos fault it is.We have to do tushuva so our tiflos will go up to REBONAH SHEL OLAM and the sutan wont be able to be makatrig on us . we are in times of a skuna and the sutan is makatrig bashas sucuna
At 6:42 AM,
Anonymous said…
We have to do teshiuveh on SOOOOOOOOOOO Manyyyyyyyyyy Things.... Machlokos is one major issue... We are going into the YEMAY Metazurim... CHAZ"L tell us vey clear ... ""That Both Bais Hamikidosh are Churev because of Maclokos"" and Mushiach WANTS so much to coma and save us BUT where should he come ?? Monroe? Willamsburg? BP? Crown? Lakewood?? HE is affraid he will be kicked out by the OTHER group!!! In haven he is safe... LETS BUILD a sfag ground for Moshiach!!!
At 7:34 AM,
Anonymous said…
R Pesach waz a Zisser yingerman. He never raised his voice, or showed any sign of anger.
He recently celebrated the birth of his first einikel and invited me to the shulem zucher in 45th st. I asked him "it doesn't bother you?" (since he davens in 48th st.) He put both his hands up closed his mouth and wouldn't say a word, no matter how many times i pushed the subject.
Dear friends: This was Reb Pesach O"H He stayed far away from machlokes. Let us all learn from him and do the same.
He was Korban Tzibur.
At 8:06 AM,
Anonymous said…
Does anybody know what's the matzav with the mother and/or the children?
At 8:51 AM,
Anonymous said…
The accident was a head on collision, with another car that crashed into them. The other car swerved to avoid someone on the side of the road, and hit the Goldberg family head on.
At 10:12 AM,
Anonymous said…
Esther: do you know as a fact this has to do with stoping for a hitch hiker?
I never stop on rt. 42 or 52, 17B etc. My wife yells at me, but I tell her it is dangerous.
At 10:41 AM,
Anonymous said…
While on the topic of safety - men tell your wives that when they walk on the side of the road with their baby carriages and the carriages are on the white line they are putting your child in danger. I witnessed a car miss a carriage by less than maybe 6" and the mother just walked on busy talking to her walking partner.I think that walking on the side of the road is dangerous enogh - do not take your baby carriages with you!!!!!
At 10:49 AM,
Anonymous said…
And how about in Boro Park on 13th Avenue, when the ladies cross the street, and they go carriage first. By the time they get far enough to see if cars are coming, the carriage is already into the intersection.
At 10:49 AM,
Anonymous said…
Any update on when/where the levaya will be?
At 10:49 AM,
Anonymous said…
Yesterdays daf hayomi was Pai Gimel, Pesach Goldberg
At 11:04 AM,
Anonymous said…
Esther, I don't pull over even if I can stop safe. I dont want to encourage the hikers to stand on such bussy roadway. I do stop on a quite smaller street. It is illegal and you can be stoped by a police.
People used to stand on the 17 for a hitch! It stoped only when the state police did a public campagne and the newspapers asked to stop.
At 11:13 AM,
Anonymous said…
I heard some hatalah were upset why the boy was not airlifted to a trauma center as well.
A hatalah member told me today, that B13 and others should have known, that anyone in a car were someone was killed, needs to go to a trauma center and they should have called another chopper.
The problem was the hatzalah mambers thought the boy was basically ok, but of course it turns out he had a broken pelvic, and had to be transported (by helicopter or ambulance? anyone knows?) to westchester.
At 11:19 AM,
Anonymous said…
Does anyone realize the complexity regarding getting a chopper to a scene? Yes maybe he should have transferred them all to a Trauma Center, but calling for a second chopper is not always possible.
At 11:24 AM,
Anonymous said…
Sometimes when there is a mass casualty scene, and even when its just one injured, even experienced hatzolah members can become overwhelmed, and chaos can rule.
This goes to a deeper argument, over how well is Hatzolah trained, and how qualified are the CoOrdinators. Most coordinaters are strong armed into the position, and lead by fear.
There needs to be some qualification to being a coordinator, and not just someone who is politically connected.
At 11:24 AM,
Anonymous said…
Does anyone know why B13 was in charge and not F60? Was F60 even there?
At 11:25 AM,
Anonymous said…
The levayeh in camp Shalva ended at 11 o'clock. Rabbi Gips and Goldman spoke. They are now on the way to BP. The levayeh will probably be at 3
At 11:27 AM,
Anonymous said…
Because B13 is a co-ordinator and a Bobover who happened to have been a minute away from the accident. He was the first responder.
At 11:43 AM,
Anonymous said…
They almost never land a chopper on the scene; rather to a close parking lot.
It is no big deal to bring 2, it is done all the time, you can also send 2 people in one chopper.
The problem is that the BP hatzala members and coordinators are not enough familiar with the system up there, being used to run to IZ. The upstate gusy know this much better. the call medivac all the time, to ANY serius accident and don't get so excited as hatalah gets when bringing in a chopper.
Hatzalah in the C even conceded this year, and only Sullivan county can now ask for a chopper, after a simmiler bad desician by hatzala last summer, on a child struck in monticello. F60 was then smart enough to concede that his mambers are not made for this, and the county, FD and sherrif handle this better.
But as another said, whoever watched any major hatazala scene knows, it becomes so chayotic, that even the best coordinator will loose his head.
A kid with a broken pelvis, in a car were someone was killed, goes to a truama center!
At 11:56 AM,
Anonymous said…
If its not Hatzalah that makes the decisions about choppers anymore, then why was only one called. How come the locals didn't call two?
On another point, I am amazed that in the country people rely exclusively on Hatzolah and ignore the locals and MobileMedic. There are times when it takes 15 minutes for Hatzolah to respond in the country, yet the locals could have responded alot sooner.
At 11:57 AM,
Anonymous said…
Can anyone confirm if F60 was on the scene? Also does anyone know the condition of the body that they were able to declare him DOA and not even treat him?
At 11:57 AM,
Anonymous said…
I actually heard 2 choppers we're reqested by sullivan county, but one was canceled by hatzalah on scene.
At 11:59 AM,
Anonymous said…
Why does a scene become so chaotic? Is it the lack of coordination, the buffs that show up, the adrenalin? Or is there some other reason.
When is Hatzolah going to properly train for these types of events, so that cooler minds will be in control of such high pressured incidents.
At 12:00 PM,
Anonymous said…
So Hatzolah overrulled the locals in regards to a Chopper? So much for letting the locals make decisions that they are better experienced about.
At 12:01 PM,
Anonymous said…
Being that everyone is jumping to conclusions let me explain.... A chopper is ONLY allowed to be called to a scene by ALS (paramedics) this is a system wide rule and applies to local EMS as well as Hatzola. You said "Hatzalah in the C even conceded this year, and only Sullivan county can now ask for a chopper" this is false. In order to request a chopper to the scene the Sullivan County Dispatcher has to be notified since the chopper communicates with the units on the scene through their frequency. In addition, once the chopper arrives on the scene the medics on board the chopper evaluate the patient(s) and then determine if the patient is stable enough to fly. If the patient is not stable they get referred to the local hospital (Harris) to be stablized and then they get choppered over to a trauma center. In the case of a broken Pelvic, any one in the medical field knows that a broken pelvic is cause for MASS blood loss, thereby, eleminating a flight to any trauma center untill fluids are given and the patient is stabilized......
At 12:08 PM,
Anonymous said…
And why can't the fluids be given by the medics on the field? How about using MAST pants. I know in the city they are never used, but this is exactly the situation that calls for that.
At 12:13 PM,
Anonymous said…
TOTALLY NOT TRUE!!
1) a chopper can be called by any police or EMS on scene, NOT just medics! (look up the westcheter web site.)
2) As was in the Record lately, Hatzaloh agreed with Sullivan county, that when they need a chopper they ask Sullivan to call for them. Sullivan Fire then sets up a landing zone and the FD, NOT hatzala, communicates with the chopper.
3) you are correct, the chopper medics avaluate the pt on scene and decide.
4) broken pelvis is unstable to fly! BS! they fly drivers who are almost dead! as long as they are not coded!
again, look in their web site. pelvic fracture is one of the reasons to call a chopper!
5) give fluids? It is now excepted that fluid does not do much for major trauma victims. what they need is a LEVEL ONE TRAUMA CENTER and a fast surgury to stop the blood loss, NOT a little fluid!
At 12:14 PM,
Anonymous said…
Whats the website that you are reffering to?
At 12:15 PM,
Anonymous said…
So what someone is saying, is that they properly called for 2 choppers, and that the medics on the chopper made the decision to not transport a broken pelvis?
At 12:17 PM,
Anonymous said…
Sullivan county got the info from the police, on how many injuries there are, and asked for two choppers.
The police and FD there are very good at this; since they only have small hospitals they MUST by state law transfer these victims by chopper.
Hatzalah on the scene probably did not recognize the pelvis problem and canceled the second chopper. (the helicopter medics did not even see the boy)
Yes, it is an old story that hatzalah has too many hot heads, who totally loose it on major accidents. They are not realy made for this. the locals would be much better at this.
At 12:18 PM,
Anonymous said…
You guys are making it sound like Hatzolah messed up.
At 12:19 PM,
Anonymous said…
It is very clear that Hatzolah needs more training in dealing with these types of incidents.
At 12:23 PM,
Anonymous said…
Gips does not have the knowledge for such an accident, in upstate Sullivan county. "Maybe" F60 would be better.
At 12:25 PM,
Anonymous said…
Which is why someone asked, why was B13 scene command, when this was clearly F60's territory?
At 12:25 PM,
Anonymous said…
lets give hatzalah credit
but on the other hand it is about time that hatzalah starts working professionaly - there are members that need to get FIRED and there should be mandatory training each year - just like FD and PD
At 12:27 PM,
Anonymous said…
for all the guys complaining that the locals would do better,here is a little tip,4 paitents were taken in by mobilemedics(locals) so the locals were on the scene as well and they were the 1 to cancell the chopper
At 12:28 PM,
Anonymous said…
Correction from a family member:
the mothers name is "Toba Chanah Bas Sarah Rivka" not "Caya Toba"
At 12:30 PM,
Anonymous said…
b13 did a gr8 job,why dont u give him credit for what he has seen last friday on the 17 bieng the 1st member on scene and than seeing this,where its some1 he knows well.I doubt any of us when we see a close friend laying dead would be ahlf as good as b13,
At 12:30 PM,
Anonymous said…
I just spoke with a hatzaloh paramedic who told me, there is not too much stabilizing for a trauma victim. It is a load and go, to be within the first hour of the accident, on the surgury table.
they dont play around on field unless the victom cannot breath or dosn't have a pulse. whatever they do is done on the way. (he says a medic who "plays" with such a victim a long time, is a very bad medic.)
At 12:32 PM,
Anonymous said…
I don't think anyone is saying that Hatzolah does not deserve credit, but for everyone who knows whats really going on, yes there is a major cleanup required.
The problem is that being part of Hatzola became a status symbol. It is no longer just erlicher people trying to help others.
In fact there are many erlicher people that have attempted to join and were not politically connected and were unable to do so. Then there are those that are connected and/or related that were taken in.
As a community organization that collects millions of dollars, they need to become more accountable to the communities they serve. Everyone is afraid to talk about it, because everyone realizes they do alot of good, and if one complains people will always say, yeah, but who you gonna call.
At 12:34 PM,
Anonymous said…
mobil medic also showed up, so hatzalah gave them some kids to transfer.
Hatzalah was clearly in control at the scene and made all big decisions.
Any what was the week before on the 17? was everything fine there as well? I heard they were fighting. is it true? who with whom?
At 12:35 PM,
Anonymous said…
Well if B13 felt close to the victim, and his emotions got the better of him, then he should not have been scene commander.
No one is saying he did a bad job, they are just questioning his ability to deal with a scene that he is not trained nor prepared for.
At 12:35 PM,
Anonymous said…
PD,FD,EMS,EMT etc all work as a paying job, they come to a scene and do thier job. Hatzolah however comes to a scene with a yidisher hartz,and especialy if it's a friend slumped over the wheel, it's harder to coordinate
At 12:36 PM,
Anonymous said…
you guys all go to sleep peacefully but on the otherhand all members at the scene are having very hard times dealing with it,and they have sleepless nights,so its not abt status its abt emotions that they deal with.
At 12:37 PM,
Anonymous said…
No, it was Hatzolah who cancelled the chopper, not MobileMedic. MobilMedic feels very intimidated when they arrive to a Hatzolah scene, and they tend to take a back seat approach. They are afraid if they say anything they will be accussed of anti semitisim or anti-hatzolah feelings.
Patient care is what should matter most at the scene, and all the politics need to be put aside.
The bottom line is, that Hatzolah needs to let the locals run the show when they are most qualified to do so.
At 12:39 PM,
Anonymous said…
well it was either b13 or no cordinators as F60 was not local at the time so he had to deal with it ,and under these circumstances he did a gr8 job,and besides he didnt answer for the call,he was called to the scene as a cordinator.
At 12:41 PM,
Anonymous said…
If Hatzolah would be trained then the emotions would not affect their patient care. No one is denying that emotions made a difference, thats the problem.
Yes B13 knew the victim and their family well, and therefore should have let others take charge.
If MobilMedic shows up, why do the Hatzolah members make them feel like second class citizens. You think they did a favor to them by letting the transport the rest of the family??
If this was about patient care, then the first available bus regardless of wether its Mobil Medic or Hatzolah should have been used.
The most experienced person should have had scene control, and its clear that the locals were more experienced in dealing with these situations.
At 12:41 PM,
Anonymous said…
Are you guys trying to say that if the locals would have been in control then maybe the yingerman had a chance to survive??????????????
At 12:42 PM,
Anonymous said…
Was B13 called to the scene to coordinate or was he the first responder????
At 12:45 PM,
Anonymous said…
well the 1st bus was hatzoloah and the 2nd and 3rd were mobilemedics and thats y it was 1 hatzoloh and 2 mobilemedics who tranrsferd the paitients and just btw the head of mobilemedics went over to b13 and thanking him for working togethor with mobilmedics so beautiful and that e/thing worked out,and it was even 1 of the hatzoloh memebers who drove a mobilemedic bus
At 12:45 PM,
Anonymous said…
F-60 was in Harris Hospital at the time; B-13 was nearby. There were two choppers dispatched originally; I don't know who canceled the second.
Anyone who thinks that Hatzala members don't get training or discipline, doesn't know (I'm not talking about certain privileged characters, I'm talking about rov minyan)
At 12:45 PM,
Anonymous said…
no one said the yingerman would have survived, but the boy would not have schlept to harris with a broken pelvis, and then finnaly dragged back to a qualified hospital to deal with it.
At 12:46 PM,
Anonymous said…
b13 was called to cordinate
At 12:46 PM,
Anonymous said…
No one is saying the yingerman would have survived. What is in question here is the care given to the son with the broken pelvis.
Also, we need to plan for the future, and yes maybe in another scenario, had the locals been in control someone may have lived that otherwise died.
At 12:48 PM,
Anonymous said…
Just because MobileMedic thanked B13 means nothing. He is just concerned about maintaining a public image of working together.
I can tell you what he really thinks about hatzolah in private.
At 12:48 PM,
Anonymous said…
Continued.....
And anyone who thinks that the locals would do a better job than Hatzala has no clue about the locals' abilities.
Hatzala started operating in the Catskills when the locals proved that they couldn't begin to handle it.
After a few years, there has been a basic agreement to work together. But they could never do it on their own, and they can't do it better than Hatzala.
At 12:51 PM,
Anonymous said…
When will be the levaya in BP? Where is it? There are no signs anywhere.
At 12:53 PM,
Anonymous said…
And why can't they do it as good as Hatzolah. Every EMT in the state passes the same test, and receives the same training.
MobileMedic is a professional company with high standards. They are experienced and are better trained.
What kind of training do Hatzolah members get that deal with the issues at hand??
We are not talking about the volunteer departments of years ago, we are talking about today.
Does Hatzolah trust the Medics on Westchester's Air-2 or are they arrogant enough to believe that they are better?
Its time that we deal with the reality and stop living in fantasy.
At 12:53 PM,
Anonymous said…
hatzalah is not a disciplined organization at all. specially with training. some member never go on calls but show up at the big accidents only.
Yes, hatzala has a yiddish heart and the locals are paid, however they may still be better at it in such cases, or hatzalah should be more diciplined. They work like african soilders when it comes to big accidents...
They did a big favor for mobil medic, who get paid for every person they transport. Besides, the hatzalah bus broke down on the way to the hospital...
At 12:54 PM,
Anonymous said…
Does anyone have a status on the condition of the mother?
At 12:56 PM,
Anonymous said…
Gips has his own problems with his own hatzaloh. Most young members in BP hate him and want him (and others) out.
They voted in a new coordinator, a vishnitz member (lebowitz, B-84), to push the old out. (Lebowitz had troble with Central, who looked with a bad eye on his being elected.)
At 12:56 PM,
Anonymous said…
Gips has his own problems with his own hatzaloh. Most young members in BP hate him and want him (and others) out.
They voted in a new coordinator, a vishnitz member (lebowitz, B-84), to push the old out. (Lebowitz had troble with Central, who looked with a bad eye on his being elected.)
At 1:02 PM,
Anonymous said…
The Levaya left Camp Shalva at 11am and went to Westchester so the wife and son can gezaigen zich. The Levaya will then proceed to BP
At 1:02 PM,
Anonymous said…
if they get training every year and they still operate like this then either they have lousy training or they are running a kidergarden - there is so much unprofessionalisim in this organization that its unreal - from yetn tzdreiden who like to show off or to members who DONT know what they are doing -IT IS ABOUT TIME HATZALAH WAKES UP !!!! yes the are a good organization but they can be a GREAT organization !!!!!!
At 1:03 PM,
Anonymous said…
non-hatzaloh; dont go that far.
Remember there was a reason why hatzalah was esteblished years ago.
It is clear when you have a heart attack, sick child, hatzalah will take better care, and usually wait in the hospital to make sure everything is fine. they will get you to the right hospital most of the time.
We are just debating about such major accidents.
The same EMT means zero. The city system, say, will NEVER go to a special hospital, say a burned child to staten island. They only go to the closest, according to the books.
At 1:12 PM,
Anonymous said…
I cant understand how you can all badmouth hatzala. Who do you call when C"V something happens? Who do you think leaves their shabbos, yom tov or even family simchos to help others?
As a wife of a hatzala member I can tell you, they all really want to help and yes, they spend sleepless nights worrying about the goings on!!
At 1:14 PM,
Anonymous said…
Dear Hatzolah wife.... alot of members like to shvitz, go to shull on shabbos holding a radio so they can run out asap.
However there's only a small % who run L'shem shmayim.
At 1:19 PM,
Anonymous said…
the one who goes shabbos is no big deal..
a old member told me, look at those going in middle of the night and in middle of work in the day, to house calls, for someone not feeling well, NOT the accidents. THESE are the real good and chesed members to look up to!
At 1:20 PM,
Anonymous said…
of course nobody wants to say anything bad about Hatzolah because one never knows what can be this afternoon.
It may be time Hatzolah goes private and a new volunteer organization should start.
Lets not forget the tragedy here. A chusheve yingerman was killed, his kids saw him laying there lifeless, as they were being pulled out..........
At 1:23 PM,
Anonymous said…
in BP there was once a case with a woman severly injured in a accident and taken ti IZ ehre she died.
There was a big tummel and tanus on the members, even from hatzalah itself, who claimed if they would go to Luthern, wjich is a trauma center, she might have been saved. but in IZ they wasted time with her to get a surgean and meanwhile she died.
It was the hatzalah schvitzers who wanted to go only to IZ. (Klozenburger rabbe olov hasholem did not let use that hospital, after several similer incidents.)
At 1:24 PM,
Anonymous said…
Sounds like a bunch of wannabe's who were snubbed by hatzoloh. Now we know why - judging by your comments you are missing the inherent qualities needed to be a good hatzoloh member. Using this sort of forum to hang our all your dirty laundry along with your personal vendetta's is not proper.
At 1:25 PM,
Anonymous said…
while i was intrested in fiding out some information about the status. I will walk away from this chat thinking highly of anyone mentioned all should do the same and CV not be mekabel loson hora.
At 1:29 PM,
Anonymous said…
Some hatzolah wife wrote:
I cant understand how you can all badmouth hatzala. Who do you call when C"V something happens? Who do you think leaves their shabbos, yom tov or even family simchos to help others?
As a wife of a hatzala member I can tell you, they all really want to help and yes, they spend sleepless nights worrying about the goings on!!
And this is why the organization is going to go to the pits. Everytime someone has criticism, no matter how legitimate they get this kind of response.
As someone here said it best, Hatzolah is a good organization, lets make it a great organization.
At 1:30 PM,
Anonymous said…
and what exactly will a new organization accomplish?
At 1:30 PM,
Anonymous said…
Keep in mind, there is no perfection in this world. If we were perfect, we would not be humans, we would be malochim. Yes, there is room for improvement in Hatzoloh as there is room for improvement in all of our personal lives. Do we make decisions with negios, do we do everything l'shem shomaim? The hatzoloh members are to be commended for a job well done - a very difficult job that is. Try dealing with mangled bodies and grieving family members - the sleepless nights that follow. The jittery feeling seeing your own children - with all kinds of thoughts racing through your head. Just hold your grievences and present them to someone who can make a difference - not to a public loshon hora fest/blog.
At 1:30 PM,
Anonymous said…
Can someone shed light on what the "inherent good qualities" are needed to be a Hatzolah member, other than being connected to B13?
At 1:32 PM,
Anonymous said…
And who is the someone who can make a difference?
A new organization will force Hatzolah to be better, as happened when there were two organizations in Williamsburg, years back.
At 1:34 PM,
Anonymous said…
Sure, much better, like when people from one organization were standing in front of "enemy" ambulances so they couldn't go to calls.
Korach also set up a separate organization, except here you'll put both "indererd" together with the patients.
At 1:34 PM,
Anonymous said…
Bayshonim, Rachmonim and Gomlei Chasodim - the three inherent qualities of being a good jew. These qualities go a long way in helping a Hatzoloh member be a good hatzoloh member. These types of people are let in to Hatzoloh immediately. It is all the wild guys who are hammering to get in who need some pull because they are taken unwillingly.
At 1:37 PM,
Anonymous said…
Sounds like a bunch of wannabees?? Why don't you address the issues that were presented, instead of criticising those that raise them.
1) Why was B13 called to coordinate if being close to the victim would affect his judgement?
2) Why wasn't the child with the broken hip/pelvis airlifted to Westchester?
3) Why weren't the locals consulted, and they were forced to take a back seat to the goings on?
4) What training do the members receive that would enable them to deal with these types of situations?
5) What type of support does Hatzolah provide to help members deal with death of a patient?
6) Why does chaos always seem to present itself when there is a MCI?
7) When will hatzolah become less of a political organization?
8) How will hatzolah get rid of those that don't respond to calls, and coordinators that alienate many?
At 1:38 PM,
Anonymous said…
hatzalah has started taking many patients to lutheran when possible. sometimes they must go to the closest hospital!
At 1:39 PM,
Anonymous said…
They are taken into Hatzolah immediately? How many members were taken into Hatzolah in the last 3 years??? B220-B235. A whopping 15 members in 3 years. Of those 15, how many had connections?? 10 of them, that leaves us with 5 members that are Bayshonim, Rachmonim and Gomlei Chasodim.
Wow, we really are in trouble.
At 1:42 PM,
Anonymous said…
yes, hatzala might need a little bit of help with a cleanup but it is very hard, just as it is in any organization, yeshivah, school, etc.
badmouthing on this blog will not help. there are more constructive ways of trying to help.
may you never need them but when you do, you will be glad they are here!
At 1:43 PM,
Anonymous said…
And just what are those better ways?
At 1:43 PM,
Anonymous said…
People love to hate things that they wish they can do but for whatever reason are not doing.
they look at the hatzalah response as; look at how they break laws and so on and wish they can.
This is human nature and nothing more.
At 1:44 PM,
Anonymous said…
When can Hatzolah stop taking members? Do they have to continuously take members or do it based on need? BP calls are almost always answered immediately and their response time as far has Hatzolah goes is the fastest out there. If it ain't broke why fix it. There is no reason to take new members if your calls are all covered. Then again BP is not the only Hatzolah out there. Queens hatzolah takes members that can cover during the day, quite easily. Why don't your try getting in there? By the way, getting into Hatzolah is a priviledge not a "birthright".
At 1:44 PM,
Anonymous said…
find one organization where pull is not a factor. I am sure you all have used it already. come on, stop all of this
At 1:47 PM,
Anonymous said…
A privelige decided by whom??
At 1:49 PM,
Anonymous said…
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
At 1:50 PM,
Anonymous said…
a better way would be to have a meeting between askanim and hatzala and to try to air your concerns.
At 1:51 PM,
Anonymous said…
Askanim??? Yanky Meyer? Edgar Gluck?
yeah right
At 1:52 PM,
Anonymous said…
I wish I can remove the masks of all the writter's here: Suddenly things will start to explain themselves cklearly!
I promise you, most of the complainers are either guys who were rejected from becoming a member, or bucharim or bums who know they will never be accepted.
You all have a vendetta and should ask mechilah from B13 and others!
Who said it was him who canceled the chopper?
Who said hatzalah did not do a good job?
How do you know what was going on? were you there?
This is all LH based on assumptions!
At 1:53 PM,
Anonymous said…
Instead of criticising, answer the damn questions.
At 1:54 PM,
Anonymous said…
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
At 1:55 PM,
Anonymous said…
Believe me, 75% of hatzalah members agree to all the critisizim written here!
They just cannot talk too much being afraid of nekamah from the coordinators who will feel threatened!
Don't buy it that this is just L"H! We do the job for the members, who agree with us, and almost never get to vote in fair elections.
I heared from many members, that if the old esteblishment would move out, the new and younger coordinators would make it a much better organization.
At 1:55 PM,
Anonymous said…
This is all LH based on assumptions!
well said
At 2:00 PM,
Anonymous said…
Why has this become a criticism board of Hatzolah. Let's stick to the story!!
BTW, the levayeh will be 4 o'clock by Bobov.
On the way in from the country they stopped at Westchester Medical Center for the son to say goodbye.
At 2:00 PM,
Anonymous said…
And that is why nothing gets fixed. Because everytime someone complains, they are accused of Loshon Hora.
At 2:02 PM,
Anonymous said…
So the son did end up in westchester?
and what is the condition of the mother?
At 2:06 PM,
Anonymous said…
Forget about if it is LH or not (I am also involved in Hatzolah and many things that were written are true). But it doesn't come into the discussion here. Open a seperate board or thread and discuss it there. Let us stick to the Goldberg story in this thread.
At 2:09 PM,
Anonymous said…
Yes the son ended up in Westchester after being dragged around for a while. The mother is still critical and is in a medically induced coma. Only the son said goodbye to his father, the mother is not concious and does not know about the father.
At 2:09 PM,
Anonymous said…
They took him by ambulance at 1 o'clock with a fractured pelvic bone.
The mother has a few fractures
At 2:15 PM,
Anonymous said…
Its amazing how all the Bashers of Hatzolah know so much detail as so whats going on. I guess thats what keeps rejects busy...........
At 2:16 PM,
Anonymous said…
I know of a bucher who is a cripple and retarted in a nursing home today, after Hatzalah (I will not mention which) was fighting at the scene of his accident, and they canceled the chopper.
The biggest nuro-specialist later said, had the boy made it to a level one trauma center fast (he also ended up being transported.) he probably would not have ended up like this.
It was some big guys on scene who wanted to show they know best. They then even took revenge, and kicked out a great member, who is one of our primary medics today here in KY Hatzalah!
(I don't want to expose here everything. I am still human and will not kill hatzalah.)
At 2:18 PM,
Anonymous said…
There we go, the stories of mistakes hatzolah has made are coming. When will we wake up and clean up the mess?
How many people have to suffer before something happens.
At 2:26 PM,
Anonymous said…
some pointers
Let them have yearly training so that they dont get lost when there is a large scene
let there be a hotline where complains can be called in and investigated anonymousley by a OUTSIDE BOARD ( rabbaim and askanim that are not affilated with hatzalah ) if they feel that someone need to get fired they should have the power
should a cordinator see a member use lights and sirens or drive like a wild animal ( this year the was a collsion between 2 members running on the same call) they should be suspended for 30 days
next time it happens they are OUT
when someone does something medically wrong they should get suspended or put on probation
when they do something morally wrong they should get FIRED right away
there shold be limits on lights and siren apparatous ( some members have more then the president and they think they are cute with it )
if you are not running on calls quit hatzalah
this and many other things will help hatazalah become a GREAT organization !!!!
At 2:31 PM,
Anonymous said…
why does it bother u that a member has alot of lights?b/c he thinks he is cute ,so what that cute guy runs out inthe middle of the night when u dont feel god,that guy runs out inb the pouring rain for u,that guy wakes up in the cold blistering windy rainy nights in the winter to paitients that have a stupid headache,yes he is cute but he gives away his time 4 u guys,and this very same guy runs 10 minutes efore the fast is over and they deal with this.why is e/body bashing is it b/c of jealousy?or is it b/c u were wounded and you waited too long for hatzoloh to come ?which 1 is it?
At 2:33 PM,
Anonymous said…
There should be a minimum number of calls required to respond to, with the exception of those that live/work in far flung areas, and are on call specifically for those.
Also, there should be a limit on outside mounted equipment that should be allowed. Its hilarious watching a toyota camry with a full light bar on the roof.
Parking abuse should be treated seriously.
Using sirens to get through traffic when not on a call should be punished.
And yes there should be an outside vaad that monitors hatzolah, and answers to the tzibbur where the millions collected go.
At 2:34 PM,
Anonymous said…
you dont deserve a answer ( i hope you are not in hatzalah)
At 2:34 PM,
Anonymous said…
Its because the guy that abuses the system provides very little in the area of quality patient care.
Its the humble guys that have the smallest lights that are the erlicher ones.
Just because he runs doesn't make him great. There are many buffs that run to calls too, does anyone think they are great?????
At 2:34 PM,
Anonymous said…
how do the heimishe hatzoloh guys pass the state tests, if they cant READ or WRITE english, huh.....
At 2:35 PM,
Anonymous said…
Don't deserve an answer?? Anyone who donated a penny to them deserves an answer.
At 2:35 PM,
Anonymous said…
continued
do u know how many memberthey use ligths get fired for doing wrong?obviously not.Yes they get fired when they use lights and sirens inapropiatly.
At 2:36 PM,
Anonymous said…
The same way the shvartzeh from EMS passes it, they can't read or speak english either.
At 2:38 PM,
Anonymous said…
the ones that dont do too well on the written test r the best in field
At 2:38 PM,
Anonymous said…
the ones that dont do too well on the written test r the best in field
At 2:38 PM,
Anonymous said…
What's the latest about the Levaya? Where exactly is it being?
At 2:38 PM,
Anonymous said…
They only fire members that are not well connected. If someone connected uses his siren, believe me he doesn't get fired. Besides, is there an official complaint process for Hatzolah?
At 2:40 PM,
Anonymous said…
Take it easy everybody, I could start a new blog called "A Better Hatzolah". Being an insider I could give you a lof of good ideas how to become better.
At 2:40 PM,
Anonymous said…
TO ALL HATSALLA BASHERS HERE - I CAN ONLY SAY 1 THING - WHEN CHAS VESHULEM U'LL NEED HATSALLA - I WONDER IF U'LL STILL COMPLAIN THEN - GROISE CHACHUMIM!!
At 2:40 PM,
Anonymous said…
The levaya is supposed to be at 2 or 4 at 48th street.
At 2:41 PM,
Anonymous said…
RE: Anonymous said...
TO ALL HATSALLA BASHERS HERE - I CAN ONLY SAY 1 THING - WHEN CHAS VESHULEM U'LL NEED HATSALLA - I WONDER IF U'LL STILL COMPLAIN THEN - GROISE CHACHUMIM!!
Typical answer. No one is denying the good things being done, but that doesn't justify the stuff being shoved under the carpet.
At 2:41 PM,
Anonymous said…
Or does it?
At 2:41 PM,
Anonymous said…
Is Reb Shlomeh Goldberg coming for the Levaya? Did they let him know?
At 2:43 PM,
Anonymous said…
every organization that becomes as
large as the Hatzoloh, needs better accountability and transparency.
At 2:44 PM,
Anonymous said…
Anonymous said...
TO ALL HATSALLA BASHERS HERE - I CAN ONLY SAY 1 THING - WHEN CHAS VESHULEM U'LL NEED HATSALLA - I WONDER IF U'LL STILL COMPLAIN THEN - GROISE CHACHUMIM!!
so what the only way PD became better is because the listened to the communities they serve
At 2:45 PM,
Anonymous said…
ha! Welcome to the real world!
there are tens of (specially chasidish) members in EVERY hatzalah who are NOT EMT's!
They maybe passed the first time (cheated on tests, a knowen fact!) and then let it pass every three years.
now if they are connected, they easely get away with it!
They are told to only drive the bus, but then they cheat here and there, and will show up and treat.
In Shul EVERYONE knows they are a member, they have the lights and radio talking on tone 10 in shul, that is all they need!
(they usually like to show up on these kind of accidents, where they believe they get attention. maybe this is why it always looks like this at such scenes!)
At 2:45 PM,
Anonymous said…
Anonymous said...
TO ALL HATSALLA BASHERS HERE - I CAN ONLY SAY 1 THING - WHEN CHAS VESHULEM U'LL NEED HATSALLA - I WONDER IF U'LL STILL COMPLAIN THEN - GROISE CHACHUMIM!!
And that right there is exactly whats wrong with the organization. They are aloof and don't listen to the community.
At 2:46 PM,
Anonymous said…
every organization has a leader, the public has a right to know who they are. they definitly have an image problem.
At 2:47 PM,
Anonymous said…
Specially Chasidish??
Let's not talk about the issues in Staten Island, the RL, the Y, and especially Queens.
The W is actually one of the least problematic org to worry about.
At 2:49 PM,
Anonymous said…
the hatzoloh doesnt have to look like a whole bunch of showoffs.
people that have their personal issues, and try to use the hatzoloh
as a coverup.
At 2:50 PM,
Anonymous said…
>>the ones that dont do too well on the written test r the best in field>>>>
This is the typical answer of those members who never could pass, or those defending them, will give you.
At 2:50 PM,
Anonymous said…
4pm bobov
At 2:50 PM,
Anonymous said…
As the saying goes,
Guys with big cars have to compensate for their little ......
The same with big lights, radios, etc.
Look at all the members that every time an emergency tone goes off, they make sure everyone is looking at them.
At 2:51 PM,
Anonymous said…
4pm bobov 48-15
At 2:51 PM,
Anonymous said…
the ones who didnt do well in cheder, are the best in the field.
huh...
At 2:52 PM,
Anonymous said…
Willamsburg hatzalah has one of the worst names in the hatzalah communities. This is a fact. (I AM chasidish.)
They don't begin to know what they are doing at calls! and are the biggest system abusers.
At 2:53 PM,
Anonymous said…
Reb Shlomeh Goldberg is the father? The one thats over 100. (107) i think.
At 2:55 PM,
Anonymous said…
Reb Shlomeh Goldberg Is the Father of the Niftar. No he's not close to 107 and he's not 100 either, don't make him that old, please!
At 2:55 PM,
Anonymous said…
You now how many times I see the KJ or monsey hatalah bus going up and down the thruway or 17, with lights and siren.
I always hope a police stops them to look in. believe me 95% of the time it is no rush. no life and death situations to need to push all the traffic like crazy.
But this just became the culture and norm.
At 2:57 PM,
Anonymous said…
to all big hakers here did anybody bother syaing tehilim????????/instaed of talking loshon hora here?
At 2:57 PM,
Anonymous said…
I believe this was the best I read here: (read carefull and slow!)
People love to hate things that they wish they can do but for whatever reason are not doing.
they look at the hatzalah response as; look at how they break laws and so on and wish they can.
This is human nature and nothing more.
At 2:58 PM,
Anonymous said…
Do you stop the EMS busses too, or the PD cars?
If they are in the bus I think they are entitled to use lights and sirens. These are volunteers and are entitled to get back to their jobs, and families as quickly as possible. Its the ones that double park, etc that are the problem.
At 2:59 PM,
Anonymous said…
i hope hatzalah headquarters sees this transcript
At 2:59 PM,
Anonymous said…
No there are actually people that care about Hatzolah becoming a model organization. And that is from both people on the inside and the outside.
There are many active members that have issues too!!
At 2:59 PM,
Anonymous said…
how do u know that its not
an emergency? happens to be so,that when u c them on the 17 its a transport ,and a transport is usually more serious if they allow to take up 2 buses for this paitient ,so lights and sirens is appropiate.
At 3:01 PM,
Anonymous said…
RE: Anonymous said...
I believe this was the best I read here: (read carefull and slow!)
People love to hate things that they wish they can do but for whatever reason are not doing.
they look at the hatzalah response as; look at how they break laws and so on and wish they can.
This is human nature and nothing more.
You must be one of the arrogant Hatzolah members, that think just because they went on a call in middle of the night, they are entitled.
At 3:03 PM,
Anonymous said…
Hatzolah headquarters will see this, and then they will try to figure out who are the posters, and if its a member they will get thrown out.
Thats how they work.
At 3:04 PM,
Anonymous said…
is the mother in an induced coma or just broken bones?
What were her injuries?
At 3:07 PM,
Anonymous said…
oh, I see, U R entitled to go lights and siren just because you rush back to work!
At 3:07 PM,
Anonymous said…
i was from the first at the schene and hatzoloh was diong a perfect job if not hatzoloah the wife wouldint be here and bh she is doing fine as for the son did not need a chopper
At 3:08 PM,
Anonymous said…
the mother is put to sleep for her pains and has a broken arm
At 3:08 PM,
Anonymous said…
No you are entitled to use them as a courtesy for having dropped everything and responding.
At 3:09 PM,
Anonymous said…
the son still no surgery it is not sure if he will need it it may just heal
At 3:11 PM,
Anonymous said…
what chutzpa does anybody have to talk on anybody from hatzolah
At 3:11 PM,
Anonymous said…
If not for hatzolah the wife wouldn't be here? Why because MobileMedic would have killed her? MobileMedic arrived at the same time as Hatzolah and were shooed away. (Yes I was there, and saw it personally.)
Thats a pretty bold statement.
The son didn't need a chopper? So why was he transferred to Westchester? He needed a trauma center.
You see, you don't even learn from your mistakes.
At 3:11 PM,
Anonymous said…
So we have here a great expert who was even on the scene, who says the boy did not need a chopper!
Do you know that someone who was in a car where a person was killed, AND he has a broken pelvis (it the members realized this) DOES need to go to a level one trauma!?
If it is in upstate, they use choppers all the time just for that!
At 3:12 PM,
Anonymous said…
RE:
what chutzpa does anybody have to talk on anybody from hatzolah
Another member with a better than though attitude.
Why is it chutzpah to address a public concern??
At 3:13 PM,
Anonymous said…
you saw mobil medic being chased away?
how about they transported with 2 ambulances??????
see what kind of FACTS you guys here have!
At 3:16 PM,
Anonymous said…
by the way both pelvis have been fractuerd
At 3:17 PM,
Anonymous said…
The problem is that for Hatzolah, a chopper is sensational.
For us upstate, this is routine, and a chopper is called for most major trauma incidents. In fact, everyone in the car where there is a DOA is generally treated at a trauma center as per STATE PROTOCOL. (yeah the hatzolah members have their own protocol, including rules about treating goyim, and allowing other ems agencies to assist).
The hatzolah members on scene did not notice the broken pelvis. Any basic emt knows to do a full body evaluation (Full Trauma Assesment), and they should have caught it. In the chaos, there was no adherence to protocol and established practices of triage in an MCI.
It is obvious that Hatzolah needs more training in dealing with these issues.
Yes we have alot of respect for Hatzolah and the community, but that doesn't mean sometimes they do things wrong.
At 3:17 PM,
Anonymous said…
r'shlomo goldberg does not know about it they are not planing to tell him
At 3:19 PM,
Anonymous said…
They were kept away from coming close to the injured. The only reason we transported was because no one from Hatzolah wanted to leave the scene.
There were many that were just standing around doing nothing.
Yes there are good people in Hatzolah, but there are many rotten apples.
At 3:22 PM,
Anonymous said…
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
At 3:23 PM,
Anonymous said…
were they wearing seatbelts?
head on crash at 45 mph while wearing seatbelts is usually not fatal?
At 3:25 PM,
Anonymous said…
this is gettting out of hand!
naming members, and mf!
please stop!
Also, who is "WE"? R U in mobil medic or just pretending to be?
you make up such nice stories, (it would be nice if true) that hatzalah did not want to leave so they gave it to Mobil medic.
nice fanticizing!
At 3:25 PM,
Anonymous said…
Does anyone have details on the other car? Was it a frum person? Any injuries?
At 3:26 PM,
Anonymous said…
so y are you asking
At 3:28 PM,
Anonymous said…
I am not mobileMedic but I am a local volunteer firefighter and was on the scene. We work closely with MobileMedic.
I am one of those 'Locals' you make fun of. The funny thing is, I am a trainer for many of the EMT's in Hatzolah, and trust me, I know more than almost (there are exceptions) anyone in Hatzolah.
At 3:28 PM,
Anonymous said…
And no im not fantisizing.
At 3:29 PM,
Anonymous said…
How are they not planning to tell R'Shlomo Goldberg? All of a sudden he won't be hearing from his son? I'm just curious how they're planning to do this?
At 3:29 PM,
Anonymous said…
i heard the pedestrian who coused the accident got arrested anyone know if thats true?
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