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Monday, September 18, 2006

Monsey, NY - Rabbis and Community Look for Elusive Answers

Monsey, NY - At meetings of rabbinic groups and certification agencies, a number of proposals were floated to protect kosher consumers from the type of scandal that rocked the community just a fortnight ago, as Shevach Meats, a popular glatt kosher butcher, was caught selling non-kosher poultry as kosher.

One rabbi suggested banning the sale of fresh meats in supermarkets and returning to the days of the local kosher butcher. Others promoted the idea of requiring a mashgiach temidi, permanent kosher supervisor, at such stores, while another proposal called for rabbis and agencies to have the keys, codes for alarms, and combinations to establishments selling fresh meat.
Meanwhile rabbis were busy quashing rumors that a popular Boro Park butcher was also involved in the scandal. One rabbi said that the store had actually been fingured by Mr. Shevach, but that a close inspection of the store showed that there was no basis for the accusation, and the rabbis interviewing Mr. Shevach found his story to be “less than credible” which was confirmed by a subsequent investigation of the Brooklyn store.

Residents of the community were still asking “how it could have happened” in their community. This past Sunday was declared a fast day in the community to atone for the unsuspecting violation of kashrus law by so many residents. Some residents are temporarily going vegetarian while others are eating only on paper and plastic plates and using plastic utensils, the scrubbing and cleansing of kitchens continues in many homes.

The question that many are asking these days is if this serious scandal in Monsey will at last prompt both rabbis and the community into action.

35 Comments:

  • At 2:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I feel that is important to comment on this issue. Here the "Rabbis" who were asleep at the switch want to impose new Chumros on "Klal Yisroel". Why dont they impose the Chumros on themselves, Let them at least supervise as good as those non-heimishe Hechsheirim. Chumros come after we know it is kosher!! The "Rah"bonim involved should first make their own Cheshbon Hanefesh! Enough of passing the blame of.

     
  • At 2:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I am wondering why do they focus on meat/chicken only, can't this be happening at any area of the food dept like fish or anything else?

     
  • At 2:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    The headline states "Rabbis and Community Look for Elusive Answers". I do not see what is "Elusive". (For the Rabbis) Dont be lazy, you are being paid to give a hechsher do it! (For the Community) If you are a shopkeeper, distributer etc who has a hechsher and the Rabbi is slacking off, send him packing! Just a bit of advice take a ad in the local paper stating you are throwing out this hashgocho because of his infrequent visits etc. That should eliminate most problems!

     
  • At 3:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Please define a "Heimishe" hasgocha. Are you saying that the OU, KofK, OK, Star K etc give a better hashgocha? You may be right -- the OU requires a full time mashgiach at any meat establishment.

     
  • At 3:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    First of all, it's erev rosh hashonah. Lets not bash the rabbonim. We should try to come up with some productive ideas that maybe the Rabonnim would agree with.

    Let's face it, after this whole scandal if any butcher wants to repackage meat and make a profit in Monsey, they better be very sure of who they pick for their hasgocha. Many people who I know have resorted to only buying Empire and Rubashkin because they come packaged direct from the plant.

    If a butcher wants to package his own meat, I don't believe that we need to go so far and have a mashgiach temidi on site. Rather, we need to get the buyers to believe that there are respectable guidelines being followed and earn their confidence in the product that is being purchased. One way to do this would be to form a Vaad strictly for Chicken & Meats. This vaad should publish their requirements for having their hasgocha and it should be posted in the store.

    There should also be a sign in the store stating the dates and times that the establishment was inspected, similar to the signs you see in city elevators.

    Basically it boils down to consumer confidence in what they are purchasing.

    That's my 2 cents. Anyone agree?

     
  • At 4:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    i was at a bar mitzva in passaic yesterday and was hesitant to eat the main course chicken/meat
    ate only the side dishes
    afterwards i went into the kitchen and asked who the mashgiach was. the gentelman asked me why is there a problem? I said no not at all just wanted to ask him a question.He asked me what i wanted to ask and i told him i wanted to know who's chicken and meat he uses he told me meal mart/alle and then insisted i come into the kitchen to see the boxes they were delivered in (which he saved for just such a question)he told me i was the first person to come in and ask which i found schocking as after such a scandal why arent more people concerned?shouldnt the past 2 weeks wake us all up? at least to ask the caterer who's products he uses?
    untill we consumers become more aware and demanding nothing in the kashrus world will change and will go on as usual
    and its our own fault dont blame the rabbonim we have ourselves to blame!!

     
  • At 4:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    did they devorce?? let us know

     
  • At 4:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To anon ay 3:43 pm What does this have to do with Erev Rosh Hashona. We were all lead astray to eat Nevailos and Traifos by irresponsible Rabbonim. We must criticize and scream as loud as possible so that it never happenes again. We must embarass them for their greedy ways of taking money for no service. If they were in any other business they would be indicted for Fraud! The Rabonim are defrauding us. We are told dont say anything well if you are quite you are a conspiriter in the same fraud.

     
  • At 4:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To Yudesh Mamaa, it looks like you no to much, could it be that you are the butchers (moshe finkel's) wife? STOP WITH THE B.S. ROSH HASHANA IS HERE!

     
  • At 4:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    4:04 - Well said! It's always easier to blame others. Bottom line is this is a consumer driven market. If butchers, supermarkets Rabbunim, MAshgichim, whoever, know that the consumer is watching & careful & demanding top notch hashguchis, it will happen.

     
  • At 4:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    ...asking a caterer at a simcha to show what meat he is using is a good idea. Let everyone supplying meat to the consumers be one their toes - knowing that people are always checking. We have become too complacent; just relying on what is given to us. It's our "Achrayos" to make it known how much we care about what we are eating...

     
  • At 4:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    "One rabbi suggested banning the sale of fresh meats in supermarkets and returning to the days of the local kosher butcher."

    Point of information; it was the "local kosher butcher" that foisted this problem on the unsuspecting public. Those who bought factory sealed prepackaged fresh meat and poultry at Pathmark were never exposed to these shenanigans. Regular supermarket quality audits ascertain that product labeling in fact truthfully represents what is inside the package. I would think the "mirsas" this engenders to be a good guard against Shevach-style fraud.

     
  • At 5:06 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    remember banning supermarket sales of meat, only would mean increased prices for everyone, and make corrupt hashgochas more corrupt.

     
  • At 5:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To 4:18 To anon ay 3:43 pm What does this have to do with Erev Rosh Hashona. We were all lead astray to eat Nevailos and Traifos by irresponsible Rabbonim.

    That is not true. The Rabbonim were NOT irresponsible. According to my Rov, the Rav Hamachshir followed the Shulchan Aruch & halacha. He was fooled by someone who was out to fool him. To say we need to scream at the Rav is ludicrous. To compare rabbonim to businessmen and to say we need to embarrass them for their greediness,,,well I guess that shows how much you are machshiv your Rabbonim. Do you even have a Rov? If you do, ask him if you are allowed to make such statements.

    The Rov in question would also not be indicted for fraud. If hallacha states that his style of kashrus was fine where is the so called fraud?

    So what does this have to do with Rosh Hashonnah? Hmmm,,,After you finish screaming at the talmidei chachamim and accuse them of fraud and irresponsibility how do you expect to daven for teshuva?

     
  • At 5:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    For your information, the Badatz Edah Charedis Hechsher on catering stops at the door of the kitchen where the food is made. The Badatz annual Pesach guide makes it clear that they do not supervise the food once it leaves the caterer and is brought to the hall.

     
  • At 6:03 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    i also feel it is important to comment on this issue

    the rabbis who were asleep at the wheel have to be banned from the hechsher bussiness entirely

    this is not a case of one mistake
    this is a case where rabbi B was fooled for eight years

    i also have a bridge for sale if hyou think that he has no responsability in this matter

    also any rabbi that has had a scandal around him like stealing money from choshuva people in toronto should also refrain from opening his mouth

    i hear the new york times is working on this story and also a followup on how rabbis failed to catch him

    this is a real chillul hashem

    and to all the loshen hora folk

    the chofetz chaim never intended a person to not question his rabbi and also if a rabbi was wrong they at least accepted it in those days

    how can this shul allow the rabbi to continue giving a hechser to even water after this

     
  • At 6:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    and what about the hashgachos that will only allow certain products so that they can get their kickbacks from the suppliers so they buy their food, or hashgachos that will only allow their hashgachos on food sold in bigger establishments, so they can tell their client that their exorbanant fees could be "justified".

    What about mashgichim that cannot read english and don't have a high school education?

    What about mashgichim that don't know hilchos kashrus?

    What about mashgichim that believe in avodah zora?

    What about the "mashgichim" in "cholov yisroel" farms that live by themselves 365 days a year, including shabbos, yom tov, and yom kippur?

    Who knows whats really going on??

    Nobody is addressing these issues....

    There will always be crooked people, unfortunatly there are more crooked people than crooked store owners.

    May hashem give us all a kaporah..

     
  • At 6:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To Annon of 5:44
    Are you kidding?"Where's the fraud??"Are you kidding?What was he being paid to do--to pasken that you're allowed to trust the guy?That's not out-and-out fraud???

     
  • At 8:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    "The question that many are asking these days is if this serious scandal in Monsey will at last prompt both rabbis and the community into action."

    The Answer if the community takes action the Rabbis will have no choice. If however we will let ourselves be talked into covering up the kashrus fraud that goes on, because it is "loshon hora" then this is only the beginning of the fraud. Rabbis will gewt bolder {nothing happened last time} {he is such a choshover yid!}

     
  • At 9:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Although I'm not part of the Monsey community, I'd like to add my two cents:
    I agree that there's no purpose in bashing the Rabbonim.

    However, in order to see to it that such a thing will not happen in the future (or continue to occur at other butcher shops), one must also be realistic as to how all this was able to occur at Shevach.

    It is quite clear that the hasgacha there was on the gavra ("We trust him because he's an ehrliche Yid") and not on the cheftsa (the chickens and meat).

    While this may have been correct according to straight Shulcha Arukh (and may have been the standard followed by other heimishe hashgachos as well), clearly, this policy enabled MF to get away with his trickery for years. Without such laxity, he might still have been able to cheat, but he would have had to be a lot more sophisticated about it.

    So, rather than assign blame, let us insist that in the future, we insist on tough, professional oversight. Demanding some transparency in the hashgachos would go a long way as well.

    In other words, if the hashgacha is relying upon eid echad ne'eman regarding the butcher and not aggressively checking on his compliance with laws of kashrus, let them post that on the hashgacha and the consumer could then decide whether that level of supervision is within their level of comfort.

    It's not about hashgacha temidi vs Yotzei v'nichnas. It's about the mashgiach's having to treat every butcher as a potential thief, chezkas kashrus or not.

    So, what has to change is the nature of the relationship between the heimishe hashgachos and the butchers.

    Meeanwhile, let's focus on making those changes rather than pointing fingers at whose fault this is.

     
  • At 10:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    i agree with 8:22 the klal most do something not sit back and forget we nust do something ourselves or pressure the rabbonim to do something to prevent it from happening again.

     
  • At 12:02 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    What a CRUEL, SLY, ROSHO this MF is!
    He was able to FORGE every label imaginable!
    Why should his Rav not believe him if he always showed 'clear' (forged) proof of invoices, Box codes etc?
    The mashgiach did inspect his butcher shop and the freezers weekly (or more) and had a set of keys from the place...
    yet...
    This CRUEL, SLY, ROSHO managed to fool the baal machshir, the entire Monsey and the whole world!
    One thing is certain - I am sure the Rabbonim learned a lesson:
    You can't trust anyone!!!!
    Rabbonim must behave like undercover CIA/FBI agents!!!
    Only then will we eat kosher.
    And we have no choice but to trust the Rabbonim
    - unless you plan to bake your own bread, plant your own garden and watch the shochet shecht your meat, then bring it home to kasher.

     
  • At 7:49 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Who in his right mind would believe anyone when they say that the packaged meat is being supervised at all times. Shevach meat was also supposedly being watched. Also supermarket meat should come double wrapped it any buys it. I just think that from now on make it more inconvenient to buy meat in a supermarket. Buy it from a butcher you know, and then you can trust him. A butcher whose face you see across the counter---that was the way it was once that is the way it should go back to being. Only then can yhou be sure your fleish is kosher.

     
  • At 7:54 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    to 4:40
    Taking a look at the meat from the caterer did not help my aunt when she personally went down to Yeshiva of Spring Valley to kasher the kitchen and they showed her the box of KJ chicken they would be making for her simcha for a dollar extra a portion. When she went to pay the bill she found that they did not charge her the extra dollar. When she asked why they answered you were LUCKY we just happened to have this meat stocked in the freezer. An of course it was Shevach meat, in a box that said KJ on it. The did tell her when shecalled to ask, that yes the meat was treife at her simcha. So thats that you cannot trust anybody.

     
  • At 7:57 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    The problem is that even water needs a hecsher now adays. We hear about so many problems with water, eggs, worms in the fish that if you lean anything you know that certain fish have worms that you are allowed to eat. Anyone see any bugs in your water lately? I have a few filters to sell.

     
  • At 9:10 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    If you want this problem to end we must orginize a strike against buying meat or chicken ( except for shabbos and yom tov) When it begins to hurt the stores in the pocket they will go to the Rabbonim ( who are in the storekeepers pockets) and demand that something be done.
    If i am paying 100% percent more for Kosher products and the Hechsher does not higher enough mashgicim or pays minimum wage to unqualified mashgichim you must ask yourself why are they doing this. The answer is that the money is going into someones pocket.
    Rabbi Bressaluer was the exception. The money went to the Kehila and not to him. I think that anyone would have been fooled by shevach and it was his misfortune to be the one that was caught up in this.
    If you want reforms to happen stop eating meat and chicken

     
  • At 9:37 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Snakes Don’t Roar

    As friends who had the misfortune of davening with the Finkel's for close to sixteen years, we must comment, about the aboive comments.

    While it is true that you said everything softly, and with a smile that in of itself is a problem. You softly told your abusive husband to turn your own children into human piñatas in public. You softly commented to childless women, how it’s their husbands problem. Do you not know the endless stress you placed on those unfortunate people marriage?

    You were married for almost thirty years, you knew who he was, you knew what he was up to. Why did nothing so long?

    You are just a snake.

     
  • At 9:48 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    to anon at 12:02 am, True M. Finkel is a Rosho, but the mashgiach who was a full time rebbi in a yeshiva is more than a shogeg. Finkel knew he was a rebbi and would never come during the early morning hours. That means he was never there when deliveries came!! What type of idiot is this Mashgiach? Is he getting paid to say that Moshe Finkel is a great guy, or to controll the kashrus, check the inventory. I am surprised at people that they are so shallow and put such blind trust in our Kashrus system which is almost nonexistent. Maybe we should hire blind people as Kashrus inspectors so that there will never be another scandal.

     
  • At 11:33 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    even in many places were the mashgiach "has the key".it is not truly locked.
    pins from hinges can be removed. hasps can be unscrewed.
    i have seen the above in some places.
    i have also seen places were it is truly locked.i.e. only the mashgiach has the padlocks to the restaurant gate
    how about security cameras that the mashgiach can view

     
  • At 12:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    TO:11:33 AM


    we always lock both sides of the door.

     
  • At 11:05 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Did anyone see the 45 cases of chicken sitting on the sidewalk of 17th Avenue & 56th street yesterday with KJ labels on it with a chasidishe fellow saying he works for KJ & that the truck did not have enough room for this load so it was a drop off point for a customer who needed a large order before yom tov & he picks it up from there.

     
  • At 12:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    finkel is in israel

     
  • At 4:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Change the name from "hechsherim" to be called "heterim".
    Face reality. That's what it is.
    Always was. Always will be.

     
  • At 8:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    The post said "let's just hire blind people as inspectors". I hear that is actually what is happening when the hire a guy to check the salad packages for bugs, He just needs to check on sample package for some company. Apparently he's legally blind.

     
  • At 11:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Take heed! "We were all lead astray to eat Nevailos and Traifos by irresponsible Rabbonim, and an unscrupulous butcher!"

    "We must criticize and scream as loud as possible so that it never happens again."

    "We must embarass them for their greedy ways of taking money for no service."

    If they were in any other business they would be indicted for Fraud! Yes - Fraud!

    We are told "don't say anything." No, instead we are told to fast and impose "more Chumras" on ourselves!

    Why are Klal Yisrael such Masochists? Are we just a bunch of gutless sheep?

    Why do we take "self-blame" for this evil so easily, and impose still more Chumras upon ourselves. Sheer masochism!

    Do you know that the State of New York imposes a simple one-thousand-dollar fine on the defiler. That's it! End of story.

    Isn't it worth considering a class action lawsuit with a class action law firm taking legal action? Now THAT would give the evil-doers something to really worry about and to sweat about!

     

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