Montreal, Canada - Female Officers to Step Aside When Male Victims Prefer Not to Deal With Them
Montreal, Canada - An internal police memo suggesting that female police officers call in male colleagues when male victims prefer not to deal with a women police officer, is sparking heated debate in Montreal.
The issue has been raised in an internal publication for the Montreal police officers. And it suggests that female officers let their male partners deal with victims and witnesses if they're Hasidic Jewish men whose religion frowns on fraternization with most women.
The head of the city's police union said that it is outrageous and that women officers have the same right and the same respect as their male officers counterpart.
But Mayer Feig, a spokesman for the Orthodox Jewish community in Montreal, says the controversy, at least as far as Hasidic Jews are concerned, is nonsense.
Feig says his community has never asked for any limitation on female police and that he deals with women officers on a daily basis without any problem.
34 Comments:
At 5:00 PM, Anonymous said…
This is BS. In every police force in the world, a women can ask for a female officer, so the same should be for a male. Of course since they made this a hisidic issue, there will be many saying hell no.
Of course if the muslims asked for it, then it would be ok.
At 5:08 PM, Anonymous said…
I find it puzzling that this request would be submitted by reportedly frum Jews. Jews everywhere, Hasidic or not, have been interacting with female authority figures for a long time now without any such problems being reported whatsoever.
I'm wondering whether it might have been an entirely different religious faction putting this matter under scrutiny. Namely, the burka-carrying kind.
At 5:25 PM, Anonymous said…
Im a male and I would rather deal with male officers and it has nothing to do with religion. I believe most women officers feel they have something to show or prove so they become real b*t**es to deal with. Some males are the same way, but I find it mostly with women cops.
At 5:35 PM, Anonymous said…
5:25, now you killed it, you've made it totally a racial issue, & that's not what the article is all about, we're talking of religion.....
At 6:01 PM, Anonymous said…
but the chasidim dont approche the right way
At 6:24 PM, Anonymous said…
The author of that article is officer Daniel T. who is my personel friend & a friend of the Chasidic community in Outremont. He came to my house to interview me before he wrote it as he was writing about ethnic communities. The point he was trying to make,if a male & female officer arrive to a situation in our community & the male asks to speak to the male officer it's not because they look down at women (like in other religions) au contraire it's to protect our family values. We have here an excellent relationship with the Police. The media blew it out of context.
At 6:57 PM, Anonymous said…
I have never heard of the Jewish religion prohibiting a man from giving a police report to a woman.
In fact halacha deals with how a man should speak to a woman (in daylight with either another man or another woman present or at night with either two other men or two other women present or the man's wife or daughter)
I am not a Rav, so please don't quote me on the halacha, but this is how we learned it in school.
We also learned that to add to the religion is to take away from it. Now if we are talking about strip searches or pat downs, then I think all women or men prefer an officer of the same sex. Although today, that might mean someone who wants to be intimate (chas v'shalom).
At 8:20 PM, Anonymous said…
The issue wasn't about giving a report to a officer no halacha prohibits that. Your refering to halachos of yichud which is a different topic.You know that there are different stages of frumkeit in the orthodox community some will shake hands with a female in business, some will look at her but not give money over directly to her, some won't even look at them when talking to them which is what the Bnei Yisoschor writes in Derech Pikidechu that you shoud do.This is what the officer tried to explain. If they come across this type of person that wants to talk to a male to respect it, it's not about degrading them as I wrote before. This internal letter was published appx 20 days ago it was a non issue till someone gave it to the media to stir up things after the story of the gym with the shul. We (yidden) have many friends around us.
At 10:24 PM, Anonymous said…
If you know the ins and outs of the Montreal Chasidic community. You know that there are some real idiots who fraternize with the police HQ and suggest narishkeit. Obviously some poor Higher ranking cop took the bait for the stupid requests of these idiots. Now all jews look bad because some French anti semites are always looking to stir it up with the Jewish community. Shame on the idiots that put the community in the spot light for no good reason!
At 10:55 PM, Anonymous said…
Shlomo, why did you have to put this story up, wait and see now every news org. In Canada will pick it up from you, and we all look like a buch a shmucks, its not the first time that you post something and they all jump after you, don't you feel a "acryes" ?
At 11:46 PM, Anonymous said…
Maybe he posted it to show what a bunch of shmucks some of us are for pushing for stupidity with the police dept. when there are many more important issues. Obviously these yingeleit have nothing better to do in Montreal. Maybe they should get a job or something!
At 8:04 AM, Anonymous said…
Mysogyny:
"Jews everywhere, Hasidic or not, have been interacting with female authority figures for a long time now..."
"In fact halacha deals with how a man should speak to a woman (in daylight with either another man or another woman present or at night with either two other men or two other women present or the man's wife or daughter)"
"I believe most women officers feel they have something to show or prove so they become real b*t**es to deal with."
This protects your family values?
Anon in Lakewood (the capital of Mysogyny)
At 11:23 AM, Anonymous said…
The jewish community never asked the police force to be careful when female officers deal with Hasidic men, the Police decided to advise their officers on their own initiative.
That being said, who is this spokesman and what is the "Orthodox Jewish community in Montreal"? Why is he commenting and not the official Vaad Ha'ier spokesman?
It is very dangerous when individuals represent themselves as official spokespeople for a community, when in fact their comments simply represent their personal views. Information gets distorted, and eventually angers others. This is unfair to the rest of the Jewish community!
At 2:47 PM, Anonymous said…
It seems that you are not familiar with the montreal Jewish community. The vaad never speaks for the community this person is a very wonderfull man and he does alot for the community.
At 4:00 PM, Anonymous said…
why not in the airport u have this service why not on the street
i think it would be a very nice thing
nothing to be outragious about
At 4:03 PM, Anonymous said…
to 5:25 i'm also a man and rather deal with the women then with those bast. guysi
At 4:21 PM, Anonymous said…
Concerning this supposed spokesman.. who appointed him to speak on behalf of the ORTHODOX Jewish Community?
Wasn't he the same person who also commented on the YMCA issue? Look what that got them into.
I'm sure he is a "wonderfull man" but is obviously self promoting, otherwise he would have allowed the true community leaders to speak on behalf of all Jews.
Just a question, but 2:47pm mentioned that he has done "alot" for the community, like....?
At 7:34 PM, Anonymous said…
4:21 pm said I'm sure he is a "wonderfull man" but is obviously self promoting, otherwise he would have allowed the true community leaders to speak on behalf of all Jews.
This has nothing to do with the Jewish community. The author of that article was appointed by his commander to deal with all ethnic communities of his area. If I remember there are about 75 differerent ethnic communities living together within the orthodox Jewish area. He writes about different issues. He said "the police is a service to all communities they don't have to adapt to us we have to adapt to them" since he loves the Jewish people he recomended in his article to his fellow officers if possibile and if requested to let a male deal with a male. It is not Police policy. When he came to discuss the article before printing it was just how to write it best he said "I know the media will blow it out of context". The Police have not retracted this article since they have no problem with it.
At 9:54 AM, Anonymous said…
To 7:34pm I was referring to (as stated in the original article) the spokesman of the Orthodox Jewish Community of Montreal, not the Police officer.
I am aware that it has nothing to do with the Jewish community, I'm just wondering why this spokesman is commenting and not someone that actually represents the entire community.
At 10:52 AM, Anonymous said…
To the person that does not like this spoksman that spoke.Who?? is the real spoksman for the Monreal Jewish Community and why didnt we here from him regarding the last two crisis regarding the community.
At 12:47 PM, Anonymous said…
To 10:52am regarding your question "who is the real spokesman".
I'll tell you I'm not really sure who the real spokesman is, however a regular individual should not comment on behalf of a community, rather he should STRESS that his comments are his own PERSONAL opinion!
I'd rather wait for the Rabbonim to comment, or even no comment at all, then have someone with no obvious authority speak for all Jews.
3 other things;
1. If us (Jews) would have ignored the story, and played dumb to the whole issue, people (non Jews) would have assumed that the Police acted with out any influence from the Jewish community, but now since we have "spokespeople" running around commenting, it looks as if we are trying to deny that we asked the Police to publish this ridiculous advice.
2. I never stated that I don't like this "spokesman", it just that I think he made it worse.. or maybe even leaked the story to the press so he could be the first to "comment" on it?
3.What are the 2 other crisis that happened to the community?
If you are referring to the YMCA story, I think he did comment on it, or at least made sure his picture was in the local newspaper.
At 2:24 PM, Anonymous said…
to 12:47 since when do the Rabbonim comment on these type of issues? The aforementioned spokesperson does represent the Orthodox community of greater Montreal through JOCC which is recognized by the Government, Police, Rabbonim. They actully gave out a Press release which quieted down the hole fiasco. What did you complainer ever do for another Jew? This spokesperson is busy all day helping Yidden at the city level, provincial level & federal level. I don't know who you are but there are other ways to constuctive criticisim. Gut Shabbos
At 3:19 PM, Anonymous said…
Lately Montreal is dominating the news with their ridiculous 'tzinyus' issues.
First its a problem with yetev lev being located near the YMCA wherE women are excerising in their body suits, now suspects demand being dealt With by male officers!
For heaven's sakes, do Jews always have to think that the world centers around them???
WE ARE IN GOLUS, REMEMBER????STOP MAKING SO MANY DEMANDS!!!!
At 6:10 PM, Anonymous said…
3:19 pm are you dyslexic? nobody asked for anything this was the officers own initiative to write out of respect for the community. """ridiculous 'tzinyus' issues""" even in Golus some Goyim respect us more than our own, R"L. I'm holding the article in my hand I wish I could post it I don't know how.
""Modertor you could email me how to post it at gita6194@yahoo.ca please don't post this part.""
At 11:22 AM, Anonymous said…
To 12:47 pm What is the JOCC?
I've never heard of them. Are they some kind of ultra Orthodox spokespeople?
You stated "what did you complainer ever do for another Jew?"
Why did you have to make it personal? You don't know me, nor do you know what I do, maybe I spend my whole day helping Yidden.
You also stated, "there are other ways to constuctive criticism."
My intent is not to be constructive, because that would mean that I agree with this "JOCC".
My intent as I stated originally, is to criticize the organization as I don't know who they are
At 1:04 PM, Anonymous said…
"or maybe even leaked the story to the press so he could be the first to "comment" on it"
isn't this personal?
l know of Orthodox, Conservative, Reform. Can you please define "ultra Orthodox"!!
At 4:21 PM, Anonymous said…
To 1:04 pm, Orthodox verses Ultra Orthodox:
Frosting windows on a building that doesn't belong to you (even if you have permission from the owners)is ULTRA, don't you think?
No wonder you need to create your own media/public relations organization, no other Jewish organization wants to have anything to do with people, that are worried about what their neighbours are doing behind closed doors!!
Tell your children while playing, not to cross the "lane" or go any where near the windows. Isn't that easier than making a Chilul Hashem?
Are you trying to say that you see no difference between Satmar, Tosh etc. and people that live in Cote -st-Luc and daven in a Orthodox shul?
To you both are equally Orthodox? Would you eat at their house (the Cote-st-Luc'er)?
Stop showing the rest of the Montreal Jewish community that the only people that are important to you are the people that live east of Stuart.
Oh by the way that's personal!
At 11:01 PM, Anonymous said…
Last time on this topic. What's a Chilul Hashem for you is a Kiddush Hashem for me.
If they (cote st luc) are kosher I will eat at their house & if the Tosher has Shevach meat I will not eat.
At 2:08 AM, Anonymous said…
to 3:19
No , I am not dyslexic! It might have been offered by the officers on their own initiative...
but who gave them the insentive???? I remember sitting on an airplane and just before take-off, a frum man was seated next to a woman. He insisted that he will not fly with the rest unless they change his seat.....
This arrogance is beyond human comprehension! Wake up and smeel the coffee!
At 11:53 AM, Anonymous said…
dear 2:08am
over the years on different airlines I have requested many times to be changed when seated next to a woman now my children are doing it. They goyim always respected it except on ELAL where a lot of self hated jews like you travel. Wake up & learn Halachos!!!!
At 8:47 PM, Anonymous said…
I think this JOCC is supposed to be JOKE. This organization is a few yoyos with one rich guy supporting them. I think I would rather have the Neturai Karta speaking for me... actually maybe these guys are the Karta! Spandex RULES!
At 12:03 PM, Anonymous said…
To 8:47pm JOCC dosn't speak for you, you are doing a good job speaking for yourself it shows who you are. Keep up the good work :(
At 8:09 AM, Anonymous said…
dear 11:53 am
First learn how not to insult others in public by calling me a 'self hating' jew. You dont even know me.
When you learn a little kovod habrioyas, THEN you can choose to indulge in trivial matters!
Learn your Halochos!
At 9:38 PM, Anonymous said…
"This arrogance is beyond human comprehension! Wake up and smeel the coffee!"
You insulted all Frum people that adhere to Halacha. I didn't mean to insult, just you should get a taste how it feels to be insulted
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