Manhattan, NY +NYPD Pulling Over Hatzolah Member+
Manhattan, NY +NYPD Pulling Over Hatzolah Member+ An NYPD officer in Manhattan just pulled over an Hatzolah member on his way to a call for an aided with chest pain.
The Hatzolah member went to the call with lights and siren on, and was pleading with the office that he is responding to a code-1 call to 5th Avenue between West 47th And West 48th Streets, but obviously the officer didn't want to believe him and kept him waiting for a while until he (the officer) got on the air with the base.
posted by VOS IZ NEIAS @ 11/15/2006 12:47:00 PM
100 Comments:
At 9:22 AM,
Anonymous said…
Unless there was some glaring bias, I am afraid we will never know what really happened here. On the one hand, NYPD have a reputation for occassionally giving members hard time, in a pathetic effort to show them who is really boss. On the other hand, members have a tedency to adopt an attitude with NYPD so it is possible the cop wasn't totally wrong. Let's just hope the real victim in all this, the patient, is okay.
At 9:29 AM,
Anonymous said…
Unfortunately, the NYPD today are not what they used to be. They are desperate for recruits and those who join are just thugs who enjoy power.
At 9:46 AM,
Anonymous said…
I wonder whether there is a legal basis to bring charges against an officer for contributory manslaughter if an aided ever died because care was delayed...
At 9:50 AM,
Anonymous said…
The patient was just taken to the Hospital.
The Police was not "wrong" in stopping the member. A silver SUV or a black sedan running lights and siren (these are the two units I saw in front of 580) is allowed to be stopped by PD.
The question is, why didn't the officer let him go right away?
Hatzolah is a very well known org, the guy has an ID, why not just follow him?
If he's full of crap arrest him!
At 9:51 AM,
Anonymous said…
shame on the officer.
he should have escorted the member so that the member could asist the
patient.
shame shame
At 9:59 AM,
Anonymous said…
And let this be a lesson to all by abusing the system with using lights and sirens for unnecessary reasons will cause us all to lose out in the long run! So don't leave Boro Park for Williamsburg or Monsey ridiculously close to Shabbat when the only way you can get there is via using them......
At 10:01 AM,
Anonymous said…
If this is true, I want to know what stand the frum community and not frum community, for that matter is taking on this. THis incident must be reported in the papers and other media. THis is absolutely outrageous. If this is true, I want to know when and where a rally of 200,000, yes 200,00 jews will occur. It is high time that if we want Moshiach and an end to suffering, machlos, etc. that we stand united. UNITED. Hashem craves for an am yisroel that is united. Goy Echad Ba'aretz.
I am sick tired of all this stuff. Let's start changing yiddishkeit as it is currently being practiced and make it a beacon onto the world.
A guten shabbos, Klal Yisroel
At 10:06 AM,
Anonymous said…
its not the first time sch a thing happens, NYPD piece of crap
At 10:24 AM,
Anonymous said…
Trust me, this officer is not going to have an easy time. I was pulled over two years ago in front of the Port authority bus terminal. I was in a jeep grand cherokee going lights and sirens. I was proceeding to a possible cardiac arrest on a city bus. The cop who pulled me over said that I was lying because he didn't hear anything over his radio. He took my license and I'd to his car and kept me there for 10 minutes. The next unit who was dispatched passed right by me, and the cop didn't do anything. I let the base know I was pulled over and they called a frum yid who works for the police department who eventually called the police officer and let me go. Guess What! THE PAITENT DIED. It was reported to the internal affairs department who had the officer transffered to desk duty that week, claiming that I showed proper I'd and he had no good reason to keep me there. Approx. 1 month later this officer was suspended with pay for 18 months. Hatzalah is a well respected agency in the police departments eyes (the head honchos). They will surely find out about this case, and hopefully give the same to this officer, like they gave to the officer in my case.
At 10:32 AM,
Anonymous said…
how come this never happens with any of the hatzolah divisions in new jersey like lakewood,jersey shore,union county and passic???????
At 10:47 AM,
Anonymous said…
I can't believe some of the comments here. Especially by someone who claims to be a member. Cops have 100% right to pull you over. Especially in an area that is considered high risk for terrorism and burglary. Of course the cop should have let him go as soon as he showed proper ID. Cops hardly stop anyone and if the member and cop act courteously to each other it should not take more than 1 or 2 minutes. If the cop holds him longer there could be a problem, but he absolutely can stop you and we just have to accept it. Just imagine a crook a crown vic with emt plates (not hard to get)passing a cop, pulling up to 47th st and ripping off a diamond dealer and zooming away. Then you would have your demonstration why the cop did not stop a "suspicious" car. Let the cops do there job and we will do ours.
At 10:49 AM,
Anonymous said…
by the way it dose happen in lakewood. the only diffrence in lakewood is that pd moniters hatzolah radio an can check with dispatch if their is a call
At 10:58 AM,
Anonymous said…
anon 1032,
your comment is totally inappropriate and smells of an immature mind.
At 11:04 AM,
Anonymous said…
GOOD MORNING!!!!
THis happens all the time!
I don't think there is even one member in Hatzolah (active member, that is) that wasn't stopped by our finest in blue.
This is life in NYC.
Don't like it? joind the NYPD... (The nations biggest lights and Siren abusers)
At 11:21 AM,
Anonymous said…
The absolute worst are the State Troopers and local yokel Police departments upstate.
And that's after that actively monitor H-Base.
NYPD doesn't monitor Hatzoloh. They rely on the officers "discretion". If the officer had a bad day, is bored, or just hates the Hassidim (aka the beards) this is a wonderful opportunity for him to show some authority, get busy or take some revenge on the Hassidim he so despises.
Who's to blame?
In my humble opinion, the freakin Machers, liaisons, and wacko buffs who give Hatzoloh such a bad name.
At 11:52 AM,
Anonymous said…
1121,
pls clarify how is that machers are giving Hatzoloh a bad name.
In my humble opinion, it is nothing other than a Mc cop or Wop cop wanting to see yiddishe patients not survive!
At 12:16 PM,
Anonymous said…
I would like to hear from someone in Hatzoloh or the member himself as to what happened.
At 12:20 PM,
Anonymous said…
The machers are a little too arrogant and the goyim are jealous.
How does it make a cop feel when he sees a guy in an escalade drive around town like he owns the place.
The cops feel as if their power is compromised. So instead of denying the facts that the goyim are jealous and need an excuse to cause trouble. Why dont we try to not make their eyes pop out everytime they see one of us.
If the machers were a little more aidel and discrete it may help them respect us more.
At 12:22 PM,
Anonymous said…
"pls clarify how is that machers are giving Hatzoloh a bad name."
I'd have to start naming names. Can't do that in public, sorry.
(Hint: Chaplains)
Oh, one more thing, can anybody tell me why every second car parked on 46th 47th and 48th street (in the city) has a Hatzoloh plaque, yet calls going out in the midtown area are rarely answered by those slackers?
Why are these members ABUSING their parking permits?
At 1:15 PM,
Anonymous said…
I just spoke to a friend of the member who was stop by the police officer, and he told him that the police officer that stop him that he is responding to a code one chest pain. But the police officer told him that don't sell me your BS i know what you guys do with your lites and sirens. While he was advising h-base that he got pulled over bt PD the officer sreamt on him to put down his radio, he tryed to explain to him that he is telling the h-base to send a different unit to the call but the officer just did not care and told him to stop talking on the radio.
This has to stop we need to do something about it, just think about it our jewish brother giving away all of there time to help us and there comes a PD anti semite who want to show that he has more power then the Hatz-.
At 1:45 PM,
Anonymous said…
My understanding is that the use of red flashers, even by an EMT responding to an emergency is illegal in NY. They could only use blue lights.
It is enough that the police look away 99.99% of the time. Do you want them to start enforcing this law? There will be no more Hatzoloh members left if they do.
While we are on the subject, I think it is time that the Hatzolo organization sits down to clean up its own house. Why is it that about 1 out of 10 heimishe cars display Hatzoloh Placards? Are we such a sick nation that 10% of our people must rescue us all the time? Also, the usage of lights and sirens must be regulated more tightly in order retain its credibility.
At 1:52 PM,
Anonymous said…
To all the people saying that pd is right or might be right or even 1% right, I can't wait for the day a family member of yours or even you yourself are in need of us and we are stopped by pd on the way to help you, and you are sitting there in extreme pain. Maybe then you will say pd is wrong. The police department has full right to pull ove anyone driving lights and sirens, BUT as soon as the person shows appropriate I'd, pd should let him go right away. any officer who does not let him go right away is 1,000,000% wrong. And whoever out there is making fun of "Machers" or "Chaplains" means you are jellous. The amount of chesed and help these "Chaplains" do is unbeleivable. you guys want to drive around lights and sirens, good - go out, take an E.M.T. course, go to your local hatzalah and fill out an application, if your needed they will take you.
At 2:02 PM,
Anonymous said…
The police department has full right to pull ove anyone driving lights and sirens, BUT as soon as the person shows appropriate I'd, pd should let him go right away. any officer who does not let him go right away is 1,000,000% wrong.
-----
Agreed.
At 2:07 PM,
Anonymous said…
TO 1:45
HATZOLOH LEGALLY IS ALOUD TO HAVE RED LIGHTS AND SIRENS
THEY GOT SPECIAL PERMISSION.
At 2:16 PM,
thekvetcher said…
the cop was a pakistani from midwood.
At 2:27 PM,
Anonymous said…
How many cops do help hatzoloh and respect them. One bad cop doesnt mean its the end of the world.
things happen, he will be dealt with and hatzoloh will continue doing their holy work. Doesnt mean every cop is evil and wants to givr you trouble.
At 2:37 PM,
Anonymous said…
thekvetcher Are you kidding????
At 2:48 PM,
Anonymous said…
No hatzalah did not get special permission. Hatzalah got a definition from the attorney general that says Private Emergency Response Vehicles are included in the ambulance statute, and that would be applicable for any emergency agency, not just Hatzalah.
At 2:49 PM,
Anonymous said…
If this incident truly happened as the "friend" says, then I am sure there is some cop somewhere that just got himself a new position. Rest assured that the "Machers" at Hatzalah will see to it that this officer will never forget who we are.
At 3:43 PM,
Anonymous said…
To anonymous at 1:45 pm
Check out the NY DOH web site under EMS/Policies. Look at policy 01-01.
At 8:48 PM,
Anonymous said…
To Anon 1:45 (The Armchair Genius)
"My understanding is that the use of red flashers, even by an EMT responding to an emergency is illegal in NY. They could only use blue lights."
___
You must be living in the dark ages if this is your understanding. Not only are red light LEGALLY used by Hatzolah, blue lights are ILLEGAL, they are for federal agency use only.
*********************************
It is enough that the police look away 99.99% of the time. Do you want them to start enforcing this law? There will be no more Hatzoloh members left if they do.
____
You must be kidding, NYPD looking away? There are more than 1000 Hatzolah members in NYC, do you think it's even possible that so many people can "get away" just by the cops looking the other way?
Get real, you fool.
*********************************
While we're on the subject, I think it is time that the Hatzolo organization sits down to clean up its own house. Why is it that about 1 out of 10 heimishe cars display Hatzoloh Placards?
___
Central Hatzolah (who is the father org in charge of all local Hatzolah divisions) gives out approx 1000 plaques (renewed) every year. Every member is entitled to receive ONE plaque (of course there are some exemptions, but those are rare).
According to Wikipedia, and I quote " Borough Park contains one of the largest Orthodox Jewish communities outside of Israel. With an estimated Jewish population that some believe may be as high as 250,000 Jews".
While I agree that the number is probably much lower 1000 members still does not equal ten percent.
So before you bring your own statistics. Why don't you check the facts?
*********************************
Also, the usage of lights and sirens must be regulated more tightly in order retain its credibility.
___
Oh nice, can YOU the self appointed smart-man please give us some tips on how we can do that? If people have no respect for marked Police cars running lights and sirens, do you think they'll have more respect for the Honda's and the Sienna's?
At 8:50 PM,
Anonymous said…
Now if someone can explain to me a Hatzalah member must drive with loud sirens at 3 am down an empty street
At 8:59 PM,
Anonymous said…
Now if someone can explain to me a Hatzalah member must drive with loud sirens at 3 am down an empty street
___
Here we go...
Hatzolah has a general dicretion rule of not using sirens after 11pm WHEN POSSIBLE. However, even at 3am, when crossing an intersection, members must use the siren to let the insomniac drivers know that somebody is passing by.
At 10:36 PM,
Anonymous said…
this same story happened to a close relative of mine on bay pkwy, a well known neighborhood for "ohavai yisroel" pct.The offcr yelled at the member when he picked up his radio,qote:Dont bother telling the base, i'm not interested in talking to rabbi gluck" so much for respect.!
At 1:36 PM,
Anonymous said…
BEING A COP TODAY IS ALL ABOUT POWER. I HAD A SIMILAR INCIDENT I WAS DRIVING MY WIFE TO NYU IN THE CITY FROM LAKEWOOD SHE WAS IN ADVANCE STAGES OF LABOR AND TRAFFIC WAS CRAWLING, SO I HIT THE SHOULDER AND TOOK OFF. I WAS PULLED OVER THE COP SAW WHAT WAS GOING ON INSTEAD OF HELPING US GET TO THE HOSPITAL HE WROTE ME 2 TICKETS. WE JUST MADE IT TO THE DOOR OF THE HOSPITAL WHEN SHE GAVE BIRTH SHAME SHAME.
At 5:18 PM,
Anonymous said…
"He called Hatzolah in the city and monsey and begged to send help, but was denied for the above reason!"
_____
I don't know about this specific story, but Hatzolah does dispatch units when they are called.
Usually they make a call to Rabbi Gluck -State1- so he should give the PIP a heads up.
At 5:19 PM,
Anonymous said…
" I WAS DRIVING MY WIFE TO NYU IN THE CITY FROM LAKEWOOD SHE WAS IN ADVANCE STAGES OF LABOR AND TRAFFIC WAS CRAWLING"
If your wife is in advanced stages of labor, TAKE HER TO THE NEAREST HOSPITAL. Why take a risk and try getting to NYC?
At 6:46 PM,
Anonymous said…
AWW C'MON!
I say a lot of you guys on HATZOLAH SHOULD GET A LIFE!!!
Altho its a wonderfull organization, look at a large percentage of their members.....drop out losers with a lot of time on their hands.
HATZOLAH should only let MArried men with a fewe reccomendations and A CLEAN DRIVER's License join.
Not just a floozy, lacky or Totie (Sliwaism) of a "higher up".
I am sure there is no greater joy than to airhorn someone out of your way on the road, but the cops know when ppl are taking advantage......(altho i agree as well cops to take advantage too, but you wont see any "wanna be cops"!!!!)
At 12:47 PM,
Anonymous said…
“AWW C'MON!
I say a lot of you guys on HATZOLAH SHOULD GET A LIFE!!!”
____
I think that you LOSER should go get a life too.
Hatzolah SAVES LIFES, idiot!
**********************
Altho its a wonderfull organization, look at a large percentage of their members.....drop out losers with a lot of time on their hands.
____
Drop out losers?????? What the hell are you talking about?
PLEASE CALL 911 next time you have chest pains. PLEASE Help the do nothings at Hatzolah save some more time for their families.
You self hating Jew.
**********************
HATZOLAH should only let MArried men with a fewe reccomendations and A CLEAN DRIVER's License join.
____
Most areas have a married only policy. In other areas there was no option but to take in non-married members. However, the process og getting into Hatzolah is not that easy. More than a “few” recommendations are needed.
Got it? You chronically misspelling jerk.
**********************
Not just a floozy, lacky or Totie (Sliwaism) of a "higher up".
____
Curtis says Toadies and Lackeys.
Learn to spell, you ignoramus.
**********************
I am sure there is no greater joy than to airhorn someone out of your way on the road,
____
You’re sure????
Well I’m SURE that you are a clueless piece of crap who has MUCH TOO MUCH time on his hands (Go scuffle with the Muslims, you moron)
**********************
but you wont see any "wanna be cops"!!!!
____
Oh, no? No wanna be cops?
Who drives around with ILLEGAL lights and sirens and has BSsp plaques form the 66? Hatzolah?
**********************
At 2:49 PM,
Anonymous said…
I think that you LOSER should go get a life too.
Hatzolah SAVES LIFES, idiot!
______________________________
Yes Hatzolah does save lives.....SOMETIMES THE PATIENT & SOMETIMES THE MEMBER!!!
At 2:56 PM,
Anonymous said…
***I want to set something straight***
I am a frum 30 yr old from the NY area.
I am all for Hatzolah, and feel agreat sense of PRIDE when I see a Hatzolah ambulance going by to help out someone. I guess it just that everytime I drive past one of the Garages in my neighborhood, all I see are smoking young men\, who I know fromthe neiborhood that I know for a fact are not so stable / mature / worked out.
A lot of these guys do it because it is cool / in thing to do.
My question is, whoi lets these kinda guys in?????
I also have seen FIRST HAND the treatment these guys have given to patients - I saw one of them literally spin a gradfather, while on a strecher, totally 180 , so they can get him into the bus....while not holding on to him, like a shopping cart. That and similiar kind of things discust me.
OH, PS - I have at least 3 DIRECT FAMILY MEMBERS ON HATZOLAH - 1 medic as well....
I want to reiterate - I get nauseous when i see the young ones acting like this, thats why i suggest MARRIED ONLY. Where I live, there is no shortage of guyys, yet the TOADIES constantly get to join due to the "sucking up" to the higher ups. I know first hand buddy!
At 3:16 PM,
Anonymous said…
To the guy who said that Hatzoloh doesn't respond to the Palisades.
Look at the following, posted on Vos Iz Neias:
"Orangeburg, NY +MVA/Overturned+
Orangeburg, NY +MVA/Overturned+ A motor vehicle accident with an overturned 15 passenger van with kids, with some of the kids injured on the south bound of the Palisades Interstate Parkway between Exit 5 and Exit 6, Monsey Hatzolah responding on a rush, anticipate traffic delays.
The van with kids was on there way from Monsey to a yesivah in Washington Heights, NY.
U/D: 07:36
Monsey Hatzolah transporing all aided to Nyack Hospital, all injuries are minor."
So, did anybody get towed or arrested??
At 3:25 PM,
Anonymous said…
To anon 2:56
I'm not saying that Hatzolah is clean from politics and corruption.
Unfortunately, such a big organization will always have its share of problems.
In some areas there is a big problem recruiting married members so the coordinators had to accept non-married men. In the area I am, no single members are accepted.
As for patient care, some young members do need more training and experience; it's not something that comes overnight. There is always room for improvement.
At 8:44 PM,
Anonymous said…
Yiddishe Mamme
A few months back there was an accident on the PIP near exit 2 (clearly on the NJ side) and Y units where dispatched ALS and 2 Busses.
The PIPs can threaten all they want (it's not only Hatzoloh they fight with) if somebody's life is truly in danger Hatzoloh will respond and take the risk of getting pulled over and harassed.
At 2:39 AM,
Anonymous said…
I dont know if this thread is dead or not, But let me add my two cents.
First of all, Hatzolo is an amazing organization and has saved 1000's of lives in the tristate area.
Hatzalah is a Respected organization in many different areas including Monsey. H' has Trouble in monsey From Non-Jewish VAS's simply because they are jealous that H's Average Response time is unbeaten.
But, H' members abuse their privileges all the time. It's a disgrace! a total Chilul Hashem.
In Monsey it isn't a big problem but in the city it is, I was once in the Lincoln tunnel with an H' member as a passenger, We saw a H' member passing by like he was on a code 1, we called into base, found out that he is not on call, and made sure that his plaque/id was taken away.
H' defiantly has to monitor the members better, otherwise they are bound for disaster.
That cop was very wrong for not letting the member proceed to his call, he should be Suspended without pay and Demoted.
Remember, We are in galus.
At 4:02 PM,
Anonymous said…
Couple points to mention here that was wrong in the postings. I may or may not be a cop, I won't disclose that.
1. Red lights use is personal vehicles, irrespective of VAS license plates is ILLEGAL. I will stop you. I do not care if you have a call, if I see red lights in a personal car, I will stop you. End of story. Tags (licese plates) are irrelevant. I have and will stop federal vehicles as well. I just need to see credentials.
2. Blue Lights exclusively, are for the use by Volunteer Firefighters in the personal car, when responding to fire calls. The use of such lights does not imply traffic law immunity, they must adhere to the laws (stop at lights). Law enforcement can stop these folks at ANY TIME even in route to a call!!! . It's not an issue in NYC, since there is no volunteer FD, out on Long Island, its a different story.
3. EMTs can use GREEN lights, NOT RED, and like volunteers firefighters can be stopped, even when in route to call. The GREEN Light does NOT confer traffic law immunity at ANY TIME, like the blue light. I WILL ESCORT a GREEN LIGHT in a personal car, NOT RED!!!!!!
It is in a police officer's authority to stop any vehicle at any time, irrespective of law enforcement afiliation, provided that an officer has a reason to do so!
In New York, a combination of Red and Blue is Federal Law Enforcement, and I certainly pull these folks over as well. I check credentials.
4. Hatzolahs, or those who serve as EMTs, should not, at ANYTIME have RED lights their personal car, even if VAS license plates. In a personal car, that is cop impersonation, I will stop you, I will arrest and impound the car, I do not care if you have a call. If you have the GREEN Light in a personal car, I will escort. NOT RED. RED in a personal car..I will stop.
5. If it is a Hatzolah ambulance going to a call, I WILL ESCORT. I DO NOT question ambulances.
Only folks with RED lights and Sirens in personal cars.
6. I do pull over unmarked cars, and yes I do check credentials.
Why am I anal you ask?? We have a problem with folks impersonating cops. They are pulling over innocent people and robbing/raping them. It happens more than you think and there are no laws that stop people from purchasing this equipment.
I am concerned when I see an EMT/ or other non-law enforcement individuals spend LOTS of money to install hidden lights, and sirens when all is needed is ONE STROBE!!!!
Most cops..in their personal cars, have ONE RED light which they can place on their dash, or roof, not a whole package, in fact most cops frown cops that have a package in their personal cars and will issue a ticket or call said cops supervisors on a traffic stop. Therefore,Off-duty Cops will use the RED light when they are called in an emergency (technically they're on duty then).
End of story. So if you have a RED light in your personal car, you better be a cop responding to an official/declared emergency, or you will get ticketed/arrested by me.
At 4:33 PM,
Anonymous said…
A bunch of CORRUPT NYPD anti-Semetic Bast.........
At 5:12 PM,
Anonymous said…
How does this sound 4:02, cop or not cop or whatever you are. If you check the Vehicle and Traffic Laws that are cited on every single NYC Hatzoloh members permits you will see that contrary to what you think we can have red lights.
You want to pull us over that's fine but if you pull me over and after you verify that I am on a call if you stop me and you are a cop I'll make sure that you lose your badge or you are transferred to the worst place in this city.
If you try to stop me and you arent a cop I will beat you so bad that you'll need Hatzoloh.
At 5:20 PM,
Anonymous said…
To the cop or maybe not a cop, Red lights are authorized, and it is not illegal. Why don't you check with your legal advisor as to the status before spewing such ignorance. The attorney general has long ago ruled as such.
As for off duty cops with lights, that is absolutely illegal, and not authorized neither by PD nor by the state, but once again, cops think they are above the law.
Its cops like you that deserve to be thrown out of the force, and to be serving burgers in McDonalds. BTW, these days, McDonalds is paying almost the same as the NYPD is.
At 5:30 PM,
Big City Actuary said…
4:02pm said:
"End of story. So if you have a RED light in your personal car, you better be a cop responding to an official/declared emergency, or you will get ticketed/arrested by me."
And you will get a civilian complaint, and a lawsuit from me. Look at the Vehicle and Traffic law, section 375:
41. Colored and flashing lights. The provisions of this subdivision shall govern the affixing and display of lights on vehicles, other than those lights required by law.
1. No light, other than a white light, and no revolving, rotating, flashing, oscillating or constantly moving white light shall be affixed to, or displayed on any vehicle except as prescribed herein.
2. Red lights and certain white lights. One or more red or combination red and white lights, or one white light which must be a revolving, rotating, flashing, oscillating or constantly moving light, may be affixed to an authorized emergency vehicle, and such lights may be displayed on an authorized emergency vehicle when such vehicle is engaged in an emergency operation, and upon a fire vehicle while returning from an alarm of fire or other emergency.
So, you can only display a red light in front if you are (amonst other things) an "authorized emergency vehicle." What's that? Go to VTL sec. 101:
101. Authorized emergency vehicle. Every ambulance, police vehicle or bicycle, correction vehicle, fire vehicle, civil defense emergency vehicle, emergency ambulance service vehicle, blood delivery vehicle, county emergency medical services vehicle, environmental emergency response vehicle, sanitation patrol vehicle, hazardous materials emergency vehicle and ordnance disposal vehicle of the armed forces of the United States.
So, an "emergency ambulance service vehicle" is an "authorized emergency vehicle." Ok, what's that? turn to VTL sec. 115:
"Emergency ambulance service vehicle. An emergency ambulance service vehicle shall be defined as an appropriately equipped motor vehicle owned or operated by an ambulance service as defined in section three thousand one of the public health law and used for the purpose of transporting emergency medical personnel and equipment to sick or injured persons."
And yes, Hatzalah is an "ambulance service" as defined in sec. 3001 of the Public Health Law.
Want to see more: look at:
http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/ems/policy/01-01.htm
where it brings, among other things, the AG's opinion that it is legal.
See you in court, Officer. Hope you'll have better luck in your next profession.
At 5:30 PM,
Anonymous said…
To
Anonymous said... 4:02 PM
I am sorry to tell you but you do not know the laws in NYS please go do your homework before you talk, a Volunteer EMT is permitted to have red lights.
At 5:40 PM,
Anonymous said…
to 4:02pm
Do me a favor and read what you wrote and dont be surprised if you call yorself an "idiot" "stupid ****" "insensitive" or ......
You make ZERO sense and ONE HUNDRED percent nonsense.
and BTW your not a cop!!!!!!!!!!!!
At 5:44 PM,
Anonymous said…
Anon 4:02 makes a good point. I don't know who he is- he might not even be a cop-- but I can understand why a cop would stop someone who is driving with Red L & S. There's def people impersonating cops out there and NYPD is responsible for stopping them. Once a H member gets stopped, they should let them go right away. But I personally want NYPD stopping red lights & sirens cars b/c I want the community to be safe.
At 7:12 PM,
Anonymous said…
big city actuary:
-----------------
Hi, I'm just an interested bystander trying to figure this out.
"Emergency ambulance service vehicle. An emergency ambulance service vehicle shall be defined as an appropriately equipped motor vehicle owned or operated by an ambulance service as defined in section three thousand one of the public health law and used for the purpose of transporting emergency medical personnel and equipment to sick or injured persons."
And yes, Hatzalah is an "ambulance service" as defined in sec. 3001 of the Public Health Law.
OK, I got that, but the statute you cite would cover the vehicles owned by Hatzalla, i.e. their ambulances. Where does the statute permit red lights to be used in the vehicle owned by a private individual en route to the scene of the emergency?
I'm not saying it's not allowed - I certainly don't know much about this. However the statute you cite doesn't seem offer support to your assertion. And the original report, as far as I can see didn't mention an ambulance pulled over by PD, it was a volunteer in his own car who was pulled over, no? So where specifically are the volunteers' vehichles addressed by the relevant statute?
Thanks!
At 7:23 PM,
Anonymous said…
It says owned OR OPERATED. Operated probably covers the volunteers vehicles. Just a hunch.
At 8:26 PM,
Anonymous said…
read this::
used for the purpose of "transporting emergency medical personnel and equipment" to sick or injured persons."
if it transports EMS personal or Equipment like the shock machine or O2 Etc. than its legal
At 8:30 PM,
Anonymous said…
Mark your vehicles and you won't get stopped by the police.
At 8:33 PM,
Anonymous said…
"an appropriately equipped motor vehicle owned or operated by an ambulance service"
ummmm,,did they pay for YOUR personal car?
Then it is NOT owned by an ambulance service and you are breaking the law.
Oh and BTW....don't they teach you guys grammer and spelling at the Yeshiva?
This board looks like it's filled with illiterate mongloids.
At 8:48 PM,
Big City Actuary said…
"Emergency ambulance service vehicle. An emergency ambulance service vehicle shall be defined as an appropriately equipped motor vehicle owned or operated by an ambulance service as defined in section three thousand one of the public health law and used for the purpose of transporting emergency medical personnel and equipment to sick or injured persons."
"OK, I got that, but the statute you cite would cover the vehicles owned by Hatzalla, i.e. their ambulances. Where does the statute permit red lights to be used in the vehicle owned by a private individual en route to the scene of the emergency?"
A H'er's private car is 'operated' by hatzalah (part A of the definition), and used for bringing EMT's to the scene of the accident (part B). It's not talking about a bus, who's main function is to transport the sick themselves.
Look up the link I provided - it goes into this in detail.
At 8:48 PM,
Anonymous said…
SORRY. but your personal vehicle is NOT an emergency vehicle.
I hope you have a Ton of Insurance if one of you should get into an accident or cause an accident.
If I ever have an accident because one of your Personal vehicle's is running with lights and siren and as I have seen time after time "not even slowing down when crossing an intersection, I will sue you tushie's off and it will be the end of red lights for all of you. P.S. take a bath.
At 8:55 PM,
Anonymous said…
...make that "grammar".
I hit the enter key too quickly
At 8:57 PM,
Anonymous said…
Red lights use is personal vehicles, irrespective of VAS license plates is ILLEGAL. I will stop you. I do not care if you have a call, if I see red lights in a personal car, I will stop you. End of story. Tags (licese plates) are irrelevant.
------
...how did this fool pass the written examination???
At 9:01 PM,
Anonymous said…
If anyone sees a "cop" driving with lights and sirens in an unmarked car, please stop them and hold them for the real cops - just to confirm that that they are not impersonating a real cop. Once the real cops show up, you may release them.
At 9:01 PM,
Anonymous said…
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
At 9:31 PM,
Anonymous said…
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
At 10:27 PM,
Anonymous said…
Hey 8:33 you obviously know nothing about reading legislation. It says ""owned "or" operated"". If someone is volunteering for a volunteer ambulance service then the vehicle is being operated by the ambulance service and falls under the law.
At 10:40 PM,
Anonymous said…
You hatzolah members are bigger buffs than a lot of the L.I. F.D. volunteers, but at least they don't discriminate when it comes to who they serve. Hatzolah to me is just bigotry on four wheels with lights and sirens. Your cause gets no respect from me.
At 10:54 PM,
Anonymous said…
what's about cops that use their siren's for really important reasons such as donuts & coffee! or bathroom breaks!
At 11:04 PM,
Big City Actuary said…
"an appropriately equipped motor vehicle owned or operated by an ambulance service"
"ummmm,,did they pay for YOUR personal car? Then it is NOT owned by an ambulance service and you are breaking the law."
"Oh and BTW....don't they teach you guys grammer and spelling at the Yeshiva?"
Dear 8:33 PM,
Perhaps, instead of wasting time with personal attacks on blogs, you could take a course in high school level English.
The point of the disjunctive 'or' in the statute is to include 'operated' vehicles with 'owned' ones in the definition. If the vehicle had to be 'owned' by H, what would the point be of saying 'owned OR operated'?
Are we clear on that?
Are we also clear on Hatzalah's (or anyone else's) ability to 'operate' a vehicle owned by someone else? If 'operated' is to have any meaning in this sentence, it should come to include NON-owned vehicles?
If you'd like, you can contact me for a consultation (my rates are reasonable).
Disclaimer: I am a lawyer, but I am not your lawyer (until you hire me), and this is not legal advice.
At 11:25 PM,
Anonymous said…
10:40 - who you gonna call? Ghostbusters? When you need emergency help, I mean.
At 11:38 PM,
Anonymous said…
8:33, that would be grammAr, not grammEr.
At 12:03 AM,
Anonymous said…
Non-owned could be limited to leased vehicles. Just a thought. Mr. Lawyer--how about some case law to back your interpretation of the statutes. Just because you say it doesn't make it so-it is what the judge says.
At 12:12 AM,
Anonymous said…
----------
If the vehicle had to be 'owned' by H, what would the point be of saying 'owned OR operated'?
----------
An operated vehicle covers a leased or rented vehicle. In any case both owned and operated describe the vehicle's relationship with H, not with it's relationship to an individual member. so whatever the term 'owned or operated means' it's still not clear that this would cover members' personal vehicles.
Doesn't H have lawyers? This should be esy to clarify.
At 12:16 AM,
Anonymous said…
----------
...make that "grammar".
I hit the enter key too quickly
----------
Yeah, well you also got the word 'mongoloid' wrong, Mr. literary genius!
LOL!
At 12:42 AM,
Anonymous said…
Question - Does the presentation of appropriate ID automatically mean that the individual stopped is on an "actual" radio call?
Others here have alluded to some occasional inappropriate use of lights and sirens by some.
Just a thought. Also, in todays world of terrorism, they even had special stickers made for FDNY ambulances so that it would help to identify them as legitimate ambulances and not "car bombs".
I think each instance of being stopped should be looked at on a case by case basis. If there was inappropriate action on part of that Officer, then it will come out and it should be addressed.
It seems to me, that a better system should be used, such as there should be written NYPD protocol that police must follow the vehicle to the place of the emergency "if" they don't want to just accept the ID of the driver at face value. This way, the officer would be involved in all the paperwork that would go along with being on a scene with an ambulance and aided. I am sure that they wouldn't stop too many people then (other than to check their ID).
At 8:45 AM,
Anonymous said…
It seems to me, that a better system should be used, such as there should be written NYPD protocol that police must follow the vehicle to the place of the emergency "if" they don't want to just accept the ID of the driver at face value. This way, the officer would be involved in all the paperwork that would go along with being on a scene with an ambulance and aided.
----
How does this help? According to the cop, it's illegal to use a lights and sirens in a car even if on a legitimate call.
At 9:58 AM,
Anonymous said…
Hey 10:40 who asked you? Nobody cares about your opinion.
At 10:02 AM,
Anonymous said…
where is felder boy on this issue?
I tell you where he is. NOWHERE.
He will do nothing that will jeopardize a free plane ride to Israel on Bloomy's learjet.
The Midwood, Community BOard 14 is being mamash blitzed by sanitation cops giving out tickest for such stupid things like one metal hanger in the regular garbage receptacle. Where is Felder to find out why the lily white neighborhoods are being harassed now for several weeks. DO the N!@#$% neighborhoods get as many summonses as do the white neighborhoods? Where is Felder boy on this? Nowhere! Can't jeopardize his free plane ride to Israel on Bloomy's learjet.
At 10:38 AM,
Anonymous said…
A couple of quick ideas from a fellow, friendly NYC cop.
1. Please instruct your members that responding lights & sirens from the Bronx to Broolyn for a call is a little unreasonable. I stopped a car where the driver said he was doing exactly that, and although I cut him loose with no sommonses or anything I did politely ask him to turn off the lights and sirens. Even us donut eating-power abusing cops dont drive across three boroughs with the lights and sirens on generally.
2. If you are in a car with your wife and children on the west side highway in Manhattan and decide to throw the lights on to get through stopped traffic, try to realize that doing it behind a marked police car is asking for a carstop. In this case the offender was arrested and removed to the precinct (later to be released).
Incidents like these go a long way to creating an environment where the responding officer has difficulty believing the responding H-member is on an emergency call.
I applaud your organization for attempting to provide for the best medical care possible for your community, but in the current state of atertness in NYC, as well as the numerous acts in the past few years by people pretending to be police officers, you have to understand the heightened scrutiny.
If you keep your members from abusing the system, you go a long way to helping pull the rug out from under the cops who believe that your group is a bunch of scammers that tries to get over (the same way many of you feel that we are a bunch of racist donut eating bigots).
By members of the NYPD parking in areas they probably shouldn't have we drew attention to ourselves and have reaped the resulting outcome. By abusing the lights and sirens some of our mambers have forced the same on you.
Most all of us police and you H-men are trying to do the right thing by people, we all have the idiots that abuse the system, and it is up to us ALL to weed them out.
At 10:52 AM,
Big City Actuary said…
"Non-owned could be limited to leased vehicles. Just a thought. Mr. Lawyer--how about some case law to back your interpretation of the statutes. Just because you say it doesn't make it so-it is what the judge says."
I couldn't find any court cases on point - this is a relatively new statute, and not much VTL goes to the higher courts anyway - but look what the AG and the Commissioner of Motor Vehicles have to say:
"…'owned or operated by' includes an appropriately equipped privately-owned vehicle operated by an agent of an ambulance service and used in transporting emergency medical personnel and equipment to sick and injured persons." from an opinion of the AG dated May 4, 1995.
"An emergency medical technician, whether a paid employee or a volunteer, performing duties for an ambulance service may equip his private vehicle with red lights and sirens and may use these red lights and sirens, in accordance with the above quoted section 115-c, to arrive at the scene of an emergency faster." a quoted opinion from CMV's counsel.
Is that enough?
At 11:06 AM,
Anonymous said…
Please instruct your members that responding lights & sirens from the Bronx to Broolyn for a call is a little unreasonable.
-----
Please instruct your members that it is not illegal to have lights and sirens in a personal vehicle with VAS plates when responding to a legitimate call within the same neighborhood.
At 11:41 AM,
Anonymous said…
The guy suggesting Hatzoloh use green lights IS WRONG WITH THE FACTS: There are many volunteer ambulance in upstate and other remote US locations, which use red lights, just as FD here uses blue. (The captain of Spring Hill constantly uses them in his private car.)
In NYS the law clearly says that ANY Vol ambulance corp can authorize FIRST RESPONDERS with equipment in their cars to respond directly to the scene. I know of members who were ticketed. Ultimately it did not stand in court for one minute. The law is not with them. Finish!
If you want to see the real faces of these cops posting here, read their NYPD RANT, how they hate "the beards" and want to put every single one of us in the slammer if they could! They are useless minimum wage employees who just seek to show some authority over others. (You get what you pay for! Cops in LI-Upstate almost never pass a red light or abuse their emergency lights; they are just held to a higher standard! When I visit the city I am shocked to see how low the average NYPO behave; and they need TWO in a car!)
See; the cops never have a problem with ten fire trucks responding for (known) burned toast, turning over the city like the marines are coming. Only the Jew responding in his private vehicle to genuine life threatening emergencies, this eats him up alive! (At least Hatzoloh you can cancel. Try canceling FD..!)
Finally; don't forget why Hatzoloh was set up this way. The average response time used to be 15-20 minutes. Even today in the city you have an average of 9-13. Imagine your wife hemorrhaging; your daughter choking and you wait for some courteous green lights... Are you insane? Do you know how many ehrlicher yidden spend years to get this system up and running? If it is not necessary, then why did all the rabbbanim allow them to respond this why on shabbes? Have them sit in the garage? But, no: bigger experts then you decided this is the best system to save lives!
PS: I know where a lot of Yidden who have this attitude, come from: Unfortunately there are many "hatzoloh rejects" running around town - including to PD and other EMS - and talking the worst on Hatzoloh. This is even worse in areas these bums can join the local EMS. In the city these losers don't have where to go, so they stay quite.
At 1:10 PM,
Anonymous said…
Contributory Manslaughter?
What, are they inventing new terms at Touro/YU?
At 2:49 PM,
Anonymous said…
So a cop doesn’t care what the law is. So………
The law here is no longer a matter of dispute or rendered to interpretation. There is clear case law on this; and this particular cop has no idea about what he speaks. He knows just enough law to get in trouble and not enough to know what he is talking about.
I welcome him to summons me for using a red light on a call, or even having it on my dash when not on a call.
After he issues a small number of these nuisance summonses, and they are all bounced; he will find himself on the wrong end of Siberia………..
At 4:33 PM,
Anonymous said…
Let's just all keep in mind that this cop is speaking for himself and probably does not represent the majority of cops.
I do know however, that I tried taking a picture of a personal car parked by a hydrant in front of a precint with a plaque in the window, and I was cuffed and dragged into a precint, and told that since 9/11 you can't take pictures!!
So to the cop that wrote that cops are being scrutinized for parking illegally, well the word is that they are still doing it.
At 4:46 PM,
Anonymous said…
I do know however, that I tried taking a picture of a personal car parked by a hydrant in front of a precint with a plaque in the window, and I was cuffed and dragged into a precint, and told that since 9/11 you can't take pictures!!
---
Did you file a complaint with the CCRB?
At 4:47 PM,
Anonymous said…
You should take a good look in the mirror to see who the racists are.
At 5:17 PM,
Anonymous said…
i am sick of this these buses come racing over the will b bridge pushing traffic causing accidents all over the place to respond to a call up in the 30-40 streets enough is enough and god for bid you as a cop needs help the answer that they will give you is due to relgious reasons they can not help you i witinessed it first hand cop with cest pains and diffuclt dreathing turned out to be a ligit heart attack i watched this with my own 2 eyes the politica bullshit has to stop reckless is reckless no mater what bus company you work for lifestar, transcare both get written you do not see them calling apon the higher ups. so my word of advice is you better have a legit run or you are getting written and that espically goes for all of the want to be's in there personal responding from 60 blocks away it is time to tighten up your ship here guys
At 8:35 PM,
Anonymous said…
Shloma please post some news about this site, everyone has to see this
http://p066.ezboard.com/fnypdrant64609frm1.showMessage?topicID=48588.topic
At 10:05 PM,
Anonymous said…
Yes I did file a complaint with the CCRB and I provided formal testimony. I don't know what the final was.
Reply to:
Anonymous said...
I do know however, that I tried taking a picture of a personal car parked by a hydrant in front of a precint with a plaque in the window, and I was cuffed and dragged into a precint, and told that since 9/11 you can't take pictures!!
---
Did you file a complaint with the CCRB?
At 11:29 PM,
Anonymous said…
Question for all hatzolah members:
Can you explain this to me: I work for a voluntary hospital in the 911 system. A few months ago I picked up a patient - cardiac near Ocean Pkwy. The patient was being removed to Coney Island Hospital with a notification. As I attempted to cross Ocean Pkwy with a green light -- with my emergency lights on, a Hatzolah EMT in his personal car aggressively proceeded through a red light on Avenue R and made a turn onto Ocean Pkwy, despite my lights / sirens going. I watched him pull over for a two car MVA on Ocean Pkwy and Avenue S. There was already one FDNY ambulance on the scene, along with one fire truck, and four Hatzolah members in their personal cars. There was only one injury at the location. It was minor as per the BLS FDNY unit that cancelled the medic unit that was responding for a diff breather in the car. This was five minutes earlier over Bklyn South EMS. My question is: why wouldn't Hatzolah routinely cancel additional members coming in for the job. How many units do you need there? And shouldn't the member have allowed the ambulance with lights / sirens to have the right of way? I know this sounds like an isolated example but I've seen similar occurrences. Your thoughts.
At 12:52 PM,
Anonymous said…
shloma please some article about this site, every one has to see the real NYPD
http://p066.ezboard.com/fnypdrant64609frm1.showMessage?topicID=48588.topic
At 2:09 PM,
Anonymous said…
I just love all of this in-fighting! The problem is you all think the laws don't apply to you. Whether it's your Hatzolah or one you getting a traffic ticket, it always boils down to not abiding by the law. The law is the law, if you don't like it leave or follow the judicial procedures to change it. Claiming anti-semitism every time something happens doesn't help either.
Law abiding goy
At 2:38 PM,
Anonymous said…
anon 209,
u hit the nail on its head
At 6:09 PM,
Anonymous said…
just love all of this in-fighting! The problem is you all think the laws don't apply to you.
---
Which law???? It was already established that lights and sirens are permissible on a personal vehicle with VAS plates. Please clarify which law you are speaking about - the one about shooting unarmed african americans or pulling over people for driving while black?
At 7:52 AM,
Anonymous said…
Anon at 6:09 pm:
Ok - you got me. I owe you an apology. Sorry, I didn't realize the Hatzolah member was an armed black man.
Law abiding goy from 2:09 PM
At 2:08 PM,
Anonymous said…
just for future info...if u get pulled over from an unmarked car and the "officer' wants u to stop/pull over and u are hesitant, u call on ur cell *677 to verify he is legit...cant be too sure out there anymore
At 8:55 AM,
Anonymous said…
Another one today:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/11172006/news/regionalnews/tranny_bash_officer_busted_regionalnews_larry_celona.htm
At 8:39 PM,
Anonymous said…
A couple of quick ideas from a fellow, friendly NYC cop.
1. Please instruct your members that responding lights & sirens from the Bronx to Broolyn for a call is a little unreasonable. I stopped a car where the driver said he was doing exactly that, and although I cut him loose with no sommonses or anything I did politely ask him to turn off the lights and sirens. Even us donut eating-power abusing cops dont drive across three boroughs with the lights and sirens on generally.
Thanks for stopping him and thanks for not giving him a summons. I am a Hatzolah member and I can tell you for certain, had the dispatcher known that he's reponding from such a distance he would never have allowed him to proceed.
Such behavior is an exception, not the rule.
2. If you are in a car with your wife and children on the west side highway in Manhattan and decide to throw the lights on to get through stopped traffic, try to realize that doing it behind a marked police car is asking for a carstop. In this case the offender was arrested and removed to the precinct (later to be released).
Once again, thanks for "taking care" of him. All members (at least in my division) are warned not to respond with their family in the car unless it's a CODE 1 (heart attack difficulty breathing and the like).This idiot is an obvious abuser and I hope he learned his lesson.
I applaud your organization for attempting to provide for the best medical care possible for your community, but in the current state of atertness in NYC, as well as the numerous acts in the past few years by people pretending to be police officers, you have to understand the heightened scrutiny.
As a member, I can speak for the members I know. We do not mind if the cops pull us over. This is something we all understand, the problem is that too many times the member -even after showing his credentials- is still harassed and not let go FOR NO GOOD REASON. This is a CHUTZPAH and MUST STOP.
(the same way many of you feel that we are a bunch of racist donut eating bigots).
Come on, get real. You know that the comments made on this thread are mostly by silly kids trying to stir up some trouble. We respect cops (at least the majority of them) and I'm sure you guys know it.
By members of the NYPD parking in areas they probably shouldn't have we drew attention to ourselves and have reaped the resulting outcome. By abusing the lights and sirens some of our mambers have forced the same on you.
CBS - Brendan Okeefe –wink wink
Most all of us police and you H-men are trying to do the right thing by people, we all have the idiots that abuse the system, and it is up to us ALL to weed them out.
You are a smart man!. I appreciate such comments.
At 10:13 AM,
Anonymous said…
nypd should be a little more considrate in the future
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