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Friday, September 15, 2006

Monsey, NY +Butcher Sells Treifa Chicken as Kosher+

Monsey, NY Butcher Sells Treifa Chicken 5 as Kosher 09/05/06


Monsey, NY - Shevach Meats who rented some space inside Hatzlacha grocery store in Monsey, NY was caught selling nonkosher (treifa) chicken as Kosher from Kiryas Yoel.

His, and the hashgacha's house of cards came falling down in the middle of last week, when one of the owners of the grocery was told by one worker of Kiryat Joel meat slaughterhouse offhand, that the butcher had not recieved a shipment of chicken from them in 3 weeks. But the owners realized that they had been selling Kiryas Joel chicken the entire time, so they got scared and called their hashgacha.

The Mashgichim broke into the butcher's cooler at night and found 19 cases of unmarked chicken, they tasted the skin and it did not taste salty at all. Also did they found that the kidneys were still intact, which on kosher chicken shouldn't be, since it's removed before salting.
At that time they called in the butcher who insisted it was Empire chicken. They checked with an Empire Mashgiach who lives in Monsey who told them that it isn't their kosher chicken.

He was immediately ejected from Hatzlacha, as the investigation continued, more came out and it was discovered that for at least 6 months he had been selling twice as much meat retail as he had bought from known Shechita houses, not even counting what he had sold wholesale to halls, yeshivas etc.
Furthermore, some people had noticed for months that the chicken was less salty than usual, when they asked the butcher about it, he told them that they are using a new low sodium salt in the kashering process, which was false, and that may also extend to meat too.

H'Rav Weissmandel put out a letter advising everyone to kasher all their keilim.

998 Comments:

  • At 10:05 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Rav Weissmandel put out a letter advising everyone to kasher all their keilim, although he was meikil to allow hagala of cermaic and plastic even though that's only a minority opinion because there's some safek involved.

    Many community rabbanim are taking the same stance, although some are being more meikel to various degrees. M'doraisa the keilim don't need tevila since they are eino ben yomo, so it should be muttar to eat in someone else's home even if they follow a more lenient psak here than you would like.

     
  • At 10:13 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Who's Hashgacha was this? Did a Mashgiach ever visit the store and check on proucts in stock?

     
  • At 10:22 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    That's awful. Could someone please explain what "hagala" and "eino ben yomo" mean? And is everyone affected by this being adequately informed?

     
  • At 10:27 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    There is no excuse for the butcher to do what he did. How does someone coe to do something like this.

    As Frum Jews, it is our obligation to have a Kav Zchus, and I tried hard finding one.

    A Kav Zchus, in this case would be to figure out, HOW on G-D's earth is it possible for someone to be machshil es harabim like this.

    Some Questions.
    What was going through his head?
    What kind of desoerate situation was he in?
    How could he look at himself in the mirror?
    did he eat it himself as well?
    what is the hashgocho saying?
    Who gave the hashgocho?
    why didnt the mashgiach know what was going on?

    There must be messups on many levels for such a situation to take place, how did they pull it off?

     
  • At 10:44 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I know at least one prominent Monsey Rav who was still not planning on kashering his keilim

     
  • At 11:24 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    according to the rabbonim only pre packaged bottoms under the name kj and vineland bought on tuesday or wednesday of this past week are treif

     
  • At 12:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    How come wasn't this story posted on this blog the past thursday when the story got known?!

     
  • At 12:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    yiddish mama
    R' breslauer (a yeki) and very choshov one has a very srong hechsher is considdered one of the most respected hechsheirim in monsey
    you have an agenda that you have tried to push on other topics dont push your lies on everyone else as facts
    instead of instantaneously putting out an opinion (like burn the sheitels first then ask whether or not their indian (and if its a problem)

     
  • At 12:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    As Rav Weissmandel said

    if they found in the fridge on that night 18 cases of treif chicken and the Butcher ( Moshe Finkle sr"y ) was slipping calmly it is a very strong sign that it has not been the first time he did it

    and that also means that he did not have to worry that the Rabbi will make a visit ( if he ever did )

     
  • At 12:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    as per a former worker in Yeshiva Spring Valley kitchen

    Rabbi B.
    Never vested that kitchen and even when he was their
    on a simcha could not convince him to come in to the kitchen
    and see what goes on

    so could someone post y you believe his Hacsher is good ?

     
  • At 12:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    to Anon 11:24

    To say only who bought kJ or Vineland meat has to kasher, doesn’t make any sense, you are talking about someone being "machshil As Horabim" for months, so if the butcher was a butcher and the hechsher wasn't reliable, how can you trust his other chicken or his beef???? And specially when the butcher is not cooperating you don't even know for how long this goes on! That is why Harav Weissmandel said, “everybody” who bought even once any kind meat has to Kasher their "Keilim", also I spoke to someone who used to work as a cashier at Hatzolcha Grocery, and he told me that as of almost a year ago customers complaint to him that the meat were mislabeled, having a stamp from one Shchita and a computer label with a different shchita!!! so who knows for how long this goes on??? The bottom line is if someone doesn’t have a "Cheskas Kashras" then you can't trust him with anything!!!
    Peaple just got sick about it!!
    Your talking about someone who when a customer asked for a case of KJ meat, they delivered to him a case Treifa chicken!! It’s a terrible terrible situation!!

     
  • At 12:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    who is this pershoin
    is he stil;l living in the community?

     
  • At 12:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Does anyone have a copy of the Letter from R' Weissmandel?

     
  • At 12:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    If he had so much of treifa chicken in stock, not beeing afraid that the mashgiach will pop in and close off his place, as they did when the Grocery owners broke into there, that raises alot of questions....

     
  • At 1:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    11:24 is me and the 2 rabbonim that i heard from both said that bottoms from vineland and kj on tues. and wed. are the only ones that have problems.
    to say that rav breslauer never checks anything is a reckless lie

     
  • At 1:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    PEOPLE WERE ONLY RELYING ON THE HECHSHER NOT FOR THE SHCHITA ITSELF, JUST ONLY THAT WHEN SOMEONE ASKES FOR KJ MEAT OR ANY OTHER SHCHITA HE SHOULD GET WHAT HE ASKED FOR! THAT’S ALL THEY ASKED FROM THE BAAL MACHSHIR !HOW IN THE WORLD COULD HAVE THIS HAPPEN ???? THERE IS NO EXCUSES FOR SOMTHING LIKE THIS TO HAPPEN!!!!!!!

     
  • At 1:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    As someone who happens to be in the know, Hatzlocho Grocery tried kicking out Shevach Meat last month. Shevach took them to a din tora and Hatzlocho LOST. Its obvious that Hatzlocho has an agenda

     
  • At 1:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    "hagala" means Kashering the utensils by immersing them in a large pot of boiling water.
    "eino ben yomo" means that the utensils had not been used (and in this case, made un-Kosher) within the past 24 hours.

     
  • At 1:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To anon 11:24

    You didn’t answer the questions
    If someone is cheating and he is not reliable, how can you say that he is reliable on other meats???
    Answer the question!!!!!!!

     
  • At 1:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    to anon 1:15

    According to my information, Hatzlocha won the Din Torah and Shevach was to leave right after Sukkas, and was going to be taken over by continental meats
    Please check before you post

     
  • At 1:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To anon 11:24

    ONE OF MY FAMILY COMPLAINT ABOUT THE CHICKEN NOT BEING SALTY ENOUGH RIGHT AFTER PESACH, AND HE WAS TOLD THAT SAME STUPID ANSWER THAT THEY CHANGED TO LOW SODIUM SALT. THIS WAS MONTHS AGO!!! SO WHEN THE OWNER SAYS ITS FROM EMPIRE, NOT TELLING THE TRUTH FROM WERE IT CAME FROM, YOU WILL NEVER KNOW EXACTLY FOR HOW LONG THIS GOES ON, AND WHICH MEATS WERE INVOLVED,
    THE FACT WHAT WE DO KNOW IS, THAT THEY FOUND SOME 18 CASES OF “NON-KOSHER” MEAT!!!! FACT NUMBER TWO IS, THAT HE WAS SELLING DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF MEAT THEN HE BOUGHT FROM THE SHCHITA, AND THIS WAS NOT ONLY TUESDAY AND WEDNESDAY!!! THIS IS FOR MONTHS!!!!!! SO BY SAYING ONLY 1 OR 2 SHCHITA’S HAD A PROBLEM, AND ONLY FOR THE LAST 2 DAYS IS ONLY TO HIDE THE TERIBILLE FACT WHAT WAS GOING ON!!!

     
  • At 2:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    As someone who happens to be in the know, Hatzlocho Grocery tried kicking out Shevach Meat last month. Shevach took them to a din tora and Hatzlocho LOST. Its obvious that Hatzlocho has an agenda

    TO ANON 1:15

    “Shevach took them to a din tora and Hatzlocho LOST”
    BESIDES THE FALSE INFO ABOUT THE DIN TORAH, WHAT KIND OF AGENDA IS IT, WHEN YOU FOUND 18 CASES OF UNLABELD & UNSALTED TRIFA MEAT IN SOMEONES FREEZER???
    RABBI BRASLOUER HIM SELF SHUT DOWN THE BUTCHER AFTER HE DISCUVERD WHAT’S GOING ON
    WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO COVER UP HERE?

     
  • At 2:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    IT WAS HARAV WEINBERGRE WHO WROTE THE PSAK
    AS YOU CAN SEE
    AND HE SAID THAT "ANYONE WHO BOUGHT MEAT, FROM ANY KIND OR BRAND, FROM SHEVACH MEAT STORE, HAS TO KASHER ALL THERE MEAT DISHES KAHALOCHA"

     
  • At 2:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I shop there on a steady basis and I am very close to the owners of both Hatzlocho and Shevach, the mashgiach has NOT been there for at least 2 to 3 months, and when the problem arose it was NOT Breslauer who was there, he came later after he was called down and his Mashgiach did not even come to the meeting of the rabbonim after he was called down he said that he was out of town and was later found at a wedding in Ateres Charna talking to the owner of Shevach but he did not have time for the rabbonim, now you go and figure out for youself if this a good hechsher, Rabbi Breslaur is a very chushiva yid but that does not mean that his hecsher is good

     
  • At 2:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    to 1:40 and ALL CAPS
    the title of this topic is treif chicken the only sheila is chicken as for a detailed answer as toy why!!! ask a rav
    fact #1 it was chicken not meat that they found
    fact #2 we do not know that he was selling twice the meat that he ordered from shechita nowhere noone has said meat its only chicken
    to say robbonim have ostrich syndrome and are hiding what went on is your perogative however if they say it was bottoms from 2 days only then I will rely on their daas torah and knowledge of true "facts"

     
  • At 2:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    223 why did rav weinberg and not a local posek give a psak

     
  • At 2:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Nebach on all of us!!! Very important: Only those people that know the facts 100% should post; other posters are stam geploidert, and confuse others. I can't post any opinion; I don't know what happened 100%.

    I must say, however, that I am shocked, because I know the butcher; he was always considered an ehrlicher yid; so something here must have happened; who knows? Signed, Shocked, Brokenhearted, and Stunned!

     
  • At 2:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Yiddishe Mama; guard your tongue. Rav Breslauer is no small man.

     
  • At 2:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    what I want to know is if anyone beat the living $#%^ out of this guy?

     
  • At 2:51 PM, Blogger baalbatish said…

    Anonymous said...
    Rabbi Breslaur is a very chushiva yid but that does not mean that his hecsher is good
    ___________________________________

    Anonymous said...
    Yiddishe Mama; guard your tongue. Rav Breslauer is no small man.
    ___________________________________

    How does one become a chushiver yid?

    If someone who is considered choshuv takes on the achrayos to give a hechsher and you don't do your job properly and people are
    eating treifos are you still "a big man"? "a chushiver yid"?

    If a rebbe is found molesting a kid, is he still a chushiver rebbe?

     
  • At 2:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To all "Melamdai Zechus", Limud Zechus is one thing, but whoever bought anything from this butcher need to do Tshuvah! eating Nevailah B'Shogeg is something serious!

     
  • At 2:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    BEING SOMEONE WHO IS INVOLVED LET ME CLARIFY SOME THINGS 1ST OF ALL SHEVACH WON THE DIN TORAH HATZLOCHA WANTED HIM OUT IN 30 DAYS FROM JUNE HE WAS ALLOWED TO STAY UNTIL JANUARY NOW THE OWNER OF SHEVACH STILL CLAIMS THAT HE HAS ONLY ORDERED FROM KJ AND HE DOES NOT KNOW HOW THE TREIFE CHICKEN GOT INTO HIS STOCK UNLESS SOMEONE WHO IS OUT TO GET HIM PLANTED IT THERE I WONDER WHO ?!?!?!?!

     
  • At 2:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    AS WE TALK RIGHT NOW THERE IS A MEETING OF ALL MONSEY RABONIM TO INVESTIGATE HOW THE CHICKEN GOT THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE SO LETS WAIT AND SEE WHAT THEY SAY

     
  • At 3:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    to Anan 2:55 PM
    the problem isn't only for those who bought there, They used to sell wholesale for halls, Catarers, Yeshivahs etc. So there might be a huge amount of people around (even out of towners) who ATE from his Nevailah!!!

     
  • At 3:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Anan 2:56 PM
    I would've claimed the same if someone catches me doing what he did.

    1) If KJ didn't sold him anything for the past 3 weeks, then from where did he got the KJ chickens???
    2) I would've noticed if my stock gets increased by 18 cases or so...

     
  • At 3:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To 2:31

    If he had “Triefa” chicken in his place, than anything else that’s sold there is in question, don’t you understand it? And that why other rabbonim said that if you bought anything from that store you have to kasher all your keilim!!

     
  • At 3:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    eight years ago at a certain wedding in the atrium,
    a delicacy wasn't served'because a certain mashgiach from lakewood would'nt let them use it .
    reason , this butcher couldn't verify were he got it from.
    his rav hamachshir backed him up.
    since then anything from this rav hamichshir was not relied on, by this mashgiach from lakewood.
    which ruled out
    l'chaim,
    yeshiva of spring valley.
    we owe this mashgiach an apology .

     
  • At 3:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To 2:34

    Harav Weinberger wrote his Psak basically to the Nitra Residents who asked him what they have to do, but the same psak is for everyone else.

     
  • At 3:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    TO ANON AT 317 WHAT URE SAYING THAT KJ DID NOT DELIVER FOR 3 WEEKS IS A LIE FOR I SAW A INVOICE FROM KJ FOR THAT TIME PERIOD AND NUMBER 2 USE URE BRAINS THEY COULD SUBSITUTE THE TREIFE ONES WITH THE KOSHER ONE LETS NOT FORGET THE OWNERS OF HATZLOCHO HAVE A KEY TO FREEZER OR THEY COULDVE PAID OFF THE DELIVERY GUY WHO IS GOY TO SWITCH IT AROUND

     
  • At 3:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    stop using CAPS please.

     
  • At 3:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Anan 3:44 PM
    1) The Invoices you saw (if you say them...) was probebly his overdue balance which trigerred KJ not to sell him anymore!
    2) If like you say, When peaple complained lately about the taste of the chickens, what was his answer then?!

     
  • At 4:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    please stop passing stories as "facts"

     
  • At 4:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To all those that would like to say that Hatzlach
    has an agenda here and so on

    Do you thing that anyone with a business would
    do something like this that could kill his business for ever ?
    with all the costs / loss of profit that they will have now

     
  • At 4:29 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    The fact remains that Rav Breslauer who is the "BAAL MACHSER" of this store didn't catch this guy tells me that he isn't competent in Kashrus supervision, you are talking of millions of dollars of China dishes, Kitchens, Utensils, Pesach Kitchens, etc, etc, of Damage's,

     
  • At 4:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    The New York State Attorney General's office and other State agencies are involved the treif chickens have been impounded by them and was sent out to their labs to test the origin of the chicken's, there are methods of testing the chickens like checking what kind of Food the chickens had etc, they have the ability to get the info, so let's wait to see what they will come up with,

     
  • At 4:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    TO anon 2:56

    1)The only thing that Shevach won was “Time”, but in the end he had to leave.
    2) How come he took over an unlabeled chicken delivery”???, How come he didn’t call his Mashgioch that someone delivered him chicken without proper sealing ?? I spoke to someone who saw the cases it had no label or any wording what so ever! This would have alarmed anyone not even in the chicken business!
    Being in the line for so many years, he should realize that?
    3) And for last, I just spoke to someone who ordered a case KJ chicken from him on Thursday, Aug. 24 06, and the owner (not mention his name) was on the phone and said That he doesn’t have Today any cases of KJ meat in stock. Call me next week I’ll have for you how much you need, the following Tuesday Aug.29 ‘06 he called him to check on the KJ meat? owner was on the phone again and said, I JUST GOT IN TODAY CASES CHICKEN FROM KJ !, Is it fresh from today?? and M.F. says YES!!!! Maybe you deliver me one, and the owner says come in and pay for it first. He went in and paid for it, and…….. they delivered him “So Called KJ Meat” when in fact KJ didnt deliver him for weeks! Later the man went into Hatzlocha and saw the letter from Harav Breslouer, and rabbonim in the store, he ran home and bought one chicken from that case and showed it to the dayanim, and the dayen looked on him “well this is the same like what we had just discovered in the boxes, its just Treifa!
    To finish up, The owner was lying and selling knowingly to people unlabeled this was a crime against all Jewish people, done willingly and there are no excuses
    And let me tell you, that there a lot of surprises coming yet, the investigation is far from over!!

     
  • At 4:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Is the Meeting from the Monsey Rabonim finish? and if so, what are their findings?

     
  • At 4:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    is it kosher
    do you really expect anyone to believe you that hes been doing this for 8 years
    if rabbi shain knew why didnt he let the public know
    shevach was not in hatzlochah grocery for 8 years

     
  • At 4:46 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    how can I kasher myself?!!!!!! I'm full of neveiles itreifus R"L. Please help!!!!!!!!!

     
  • At 4:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Anan 4:46 PM
    Dont ask this question on the web! Go to an Ehrlicher Ruv to ask him for a Tshuvah!!!

     
  • At 4:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

  • At 4:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To Anon 4:41

    Just to let you know Shevach is already in Hatzlocha for almost 13 years
    And regarding your second question
    Rabbi Shain only got some meat from Shevach that he had question on it, and did not let the caterer use it, and Rabbi Shain also called the Harav Hamachshir to check out how this incident could have happen, but according to thew harav amachshir the problem was solved then
    But yes! There was a problem 8 years ago already!

     
  • At 5:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    i have jnet and icanot see fleeker please post picther witout fliker

     
  • At 5:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    It is indeed about 8 years.
    Rabbi Breslauer / Ulman / Hatzlocha were told about this at that time.
    They said Rabbi Breslauer is a very straight erliche yid "you can rely on him"

    The Chofetz Chaim says "Tomim Ti'hieh" is not with people.

    In kashrus you must have siya'teh di'shmaiyah & know when something doesn't smell right.

    Kinor Dovid restaurant in Monsey that closed up ("for a lack of business-only")was under Rabbi Weismandel & he alledgedly bought non-kosher chickens from Nat-Kagan in Woodridge. Rabbi Weismandel didn't catch him, but he closed up himself.

     
  • At 5:03 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I know very little about what's actually going on with the butcher store, but I see what's going on on this blog and it is, for teh most part, irresponsible, stupid, and sick.

    For all those with vast opinions, small brains and even small knowledge of halachah: There are halachos that determine
    "neemonus" -- that means credibilty. That doesn't mean that no michshol can ever happen; it means that there are people and things that the Torah allows -- maybe even expects -- us to assume are reliable. Sometimes things happen that make a person or item lose their chezkas Kashrus or neemanusm that does not mean that you were retroactively no allowed to do something (though it might need teshuvah, but likely not if it was a halachic "oness"). See Igros Moshe Orach Chaim 1, I believe Siman nun-gimmel.

    Clearly the butcher here has lost his Chezkas kashrus. See the lengthy Tehshuvas Divrei Chaim -- I think se'if zayin, in Yoreh Deah.

    There are halachos of telling and believing Lashon Hara. Ther are many things that one may only beleive if they are proven in Beis din.

    Yudel Shain has for decades thrown grenades at people and hashgachos with reckless abandon, and with a complete disregard for any of the Yoreh Deiah or Choshen Misphat halchos involved. To cite him as evidence or as an accusation is ridiculous.

    There is almost no hashgachah that has not had a michshol. SO to tar and feather a Talmid Chochom and Yosrei Hashem Mei'rabbim who doubtless gave his hashgachah al pi halachah is idiotic.

    Yiddishe Mamma: Without naming any "types," last year's Flatbush scandal was brought about by "Rabbonim" who vouched for a person who had lost his chezkas Kashrus. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

    The rest of the posters would do better to crack a sefer -- even the women would be better off learning that spewing off or reading this ignorance.

     
  • At 5:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    ,I Cant understand what ure prob. is all hatzloch had to do was switch around the chicken and for the question why would they kill their buisness the same way u have an answer for shevach use the same answer for hatzloch

     
  • At 5:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    There is no new rav hamachshir.
    Rabbis Breslauer / Ulman were the kosher certifiers when he was caught 8 years ago.

     
  • At 5:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    ,And by the way when u r in the meat buisness and ure delivery comes from a kosher slaughterhouse u dont think twice about the labeling

     
  • At 5:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To Anon 5:03

    If you know very little what’s going on then just get off the blog, DON’T COMMENT JUST READ
    We are the ones who were fed nveiles itriefas who knows for I long!!!
    And I’m not saying anything against any rav or talmid chochem, but you in the same time that you want us to respect, and teaching us about Loshon Horah, you bust Rabbi shain for no good reason, YES rabbi Shain was right 8 years ago, the only thing that he did when he questioned some meat was, not letting the caterer use it.
    He didn’t post anything about anybody!
    Come on

     
  • At 5:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To Anon 5:15

    What do you mean you don’t think twice about labeling
    What about “Boser Shnisalom Min Heiyin”
    That’s why this could have happened, when you don’t check for labeling
    And again this was so obvious that even a kid would have recognized it.

     
  • At 5:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    is it treu that i herd that s from suplier is invavlvad from a famuom femely

     
  • At 5:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    to make things clear "rabbi" breslauer is a lot to blame and he lost his chaskaz kashrus regarding giving hashgochas and this has noting to do with kovod hatorah because this is chilol hashem as the rambam says using the torah for own purposes is what the misnea in pirkei avos says someone should not do and "rabbi" bres.took his litvishe torah to put on hecshirim on restaurants without any idea of what is going on he not even wanted to go in to see what is being done there and from now on everybody should know that ware ever he gives a hecsher is treif and when will see that he cares for kovod shmayim we will care for him if it is still possible to care for someone how because of his negligence a whole chareidiseh community got nichshel with treifos

     
  • At 5:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Anan 5:32 PM
    Before you expect an answer, write your question correctly! (Check spelling and grammar)

     
  • At 5:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    The resposibility falls squarely on the baal machsher and his mashgiach temidi which the people are relying on

     
  • At 6:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    there is no such thing as "litfish torah"
    2 men once went to the satmer rov that they were going to go and argue with r'moshe he told them before they go to make sure they know shas and poskim if they want to "argue" with rav moshe because he knows it

     
  • At 6:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    5:42 there was no mashgiach temidi nor did anyone expect or rely on one

     
  • At 6:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    no litvishe torah yes litvishe torah a hecsher on treifene fleish he gave and he still did not took off his hechsher from other places so autmaticly he is a ksil shone beeivaltoi

     
  • At 6:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    He got his chicken from KJ that doesn't mean that KJ is responsible for the Kashrus of the establishment its the baal Machshir's and his Mashgiach's job to check it out and make sure that everything is right

     
  • At 6:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Its time for paople to realize that when they go into a grocery store buying a container chochlates or candies packed in the grocery, that they are relying on the Baal Machshir of the Grocery (or on the owner if there is no Baal Machshir) and not just on the Ball Machshir of the Brand!!!

     
  • At 6:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    6:02 why isn't there a mashgiach temidi?

     
  • At 6:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    to all chareidishe yiden please dont eat his hecsher regardles so u want get nicshel again BS"D

     
  • At 6:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    is this tru עס קורסירן קלאנגען אז דער דיסטריביוטער גרשי שלעזינגער פון Nassau Provisions האט געהאט א יד אין די מעשה i dont noe if dise is true but if yes its an erthqauke

     
  • At 6:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Anan 6:17 sounds like you want it should be true... are you from the Sh..... family???

     
  • At 6:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    6:17 it's BS they never sold any chickens there, they are not in the fresh chicken business at all they sell only deli pack meat like the Meal Mart or Empire deli slices

     
  • At 6:31 PM, Blogger Shiduchim Crisis said…

    Maadanei Geulah has an Eida Chareidis Hechsher today. True that when he was partner at Maadan Hamuchan they didn't have a hechsher. They too now have Eida Chareidis.
    The Shinve Rav wouldn't eat meat with a hechsher because it is Bosor Shehora Boi Chochom.
    A store shouldn't need a hechsher even if it has one. If it needs one then it is doubtful it helps. If you wouldn't eat in his house would you eat in the store?

     
  • At 6:33 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    There is all sort's of rumor's flying around on the street the fact remains that shevach bought his chickens from more then 8 supplier's and one of the reasons is that in the past 6 months he had financial difficulties and he bounced checks left and right and that's why he was doing crazy things, as far as the chickens is concerned the NYS agencies involved are making an investigation on the chickens and they are going to report their findings soon.

     
  • At 6:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Anon 6:23 he is from the Loui K. Family who is working very hard and spending on newspapers and others etc. To besmirch the Sh. Family.

     
  • At 6:46 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Who paid for the 18 cases of chicken? Wouldn't someone see that something was wrong from the invoice?

     
  • At 6:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Why isn't there anything in writing from RABBI BRESLAUR after all he is the baal Machshir here, WHY?? Anybobody understands this?????

     
  • At 6:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    afer 7:00 today the rabonim will give their final words!!

     
  • At 6:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    6:46pm When this thing came out the Investigative Rabbanim who included such noted names as Rabbi Spiegel who is one of the leading experts on kosher poultry contacted every single supplier, Distributor, etc, that they found any paper trail in the office and all these suppliers immeadiatly faxed over a full listing of all their Invoices and reports of what they sold to Shevach, but the Treif boxes there was no Invoices or record for it, until he admitted that he bought it by picking it up at a small Porto Rican poultry store in spring Valley where he paid less then .60 cents per pound because nobody from the kosher suppliers wanted to sell him because he owed everybody money.

     
  • At 7:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    this is shocking
    the sheigetz Moshe finkel is a Bal Kore and a Chazan at Rabbi zimermann's Shul on Calverd Drive!

     
  • At 7:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Anon 6:25 PM, first of all nassau provisions sells from a LOT of vendors and not only deli pack meat

     
  • At 7:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    bye the way Rabbi Zimmerman is a very nice Bal Darshin. I heard some of his Perkei Auvois shirum.

     
  • At 7:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I do not live in Monsey, but I buy KJ chicken. Could any of this treife chicken been sent to other communities, if it is found that KJ labels were appearing on the packages of treife chicken going out of Monsey? Was the treife chicken packaged and labeled in the store in question? It's so hard to follow the info being posted, and not knowing what is emes and what is LH.

    No accusations, just concern for yidden in BP or FB?

     
  • At 7:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I was in Monsey for the summer and did shop at Hatzlocha. My stomach is in a knot and I feel sick and nauseous.

    R' Breslauer is a tremendous talmid chochom and I really can't understand how all this happened.

    However, what really bothers me and is on my conscious is this: it says that if a person is very "upgehiten" (stringent) with a particular mitzvah, they are not nichshol in that.

    So the question remains on myself - am I too lax in general about hechsherim, kashrus....? Hashem has a cheshbon for every person. We are lucky that Yom Kippur is coming up and when we will fast we could hopefully atone for this.

    P.S. Shamos, it would be very helpful if spell and grammar check were made available to all commenters before they post. Some of these comments are impossible to comprehend.

     
  • At 7:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To anon 7:20

    Anyone who bought chickens from Shevach is in questions, BUT only the ones that reached Shevachs store.

     
  • At 7:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I am confused. The butcher in question works for Shevach or Hatzlacha? If the latter, then how is he to have known that Shevach sold Hatzlacha treif? Or am I missing something?

     
  • At 7:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    to Neshoma

    THe problem was not with KJ meat Chas Vsholem, the problem was his computer that generated the labels for shevach, and whatever was typed on the key board was printed on the package.

     
  • At 7:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    It's sad to say that Monsey in general has very SHVACHE hachsherim. For instance Rockland Kosher Supermarket has a hecsher on its meat department from R' Meshulem Poletcheck who doesn't even live in Monsey and is not here MOST of the time!!! Sadly, the rabbunum in power in Monsey care very little about kashrus and more about their Koved!

     
  • At 7:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    it's hard to read this and not get involved.
    on the other hand ' loshon hara is asuur.
    on gedolin/rabanim its mutter as the c.i.explains.
    if its an expert that people rely on and u now otherwise ,than lo saamod al dam reiacha ,makes it obligatory that u warn people.
    the people have a responsibility, not to believe only to suspect.
    my question to myself is ,am i lshem shamayim?.
    therefore i invite u'all into my decision.
    after careful reading of these posts and others,after talking to people in candor that have said things in private ,that they can't say publicly,
    i 'm resolving tofind out how to get in touch with yehuda shain,and let him guide me thru this maze we call kashrus.
    every one that i spoke to told me he is an alarmist, that has been proven to be correct more often than they would like to admit.
    at least i will have done my part

     
  • At 8:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I'm anon from 5:03

    Just to clarify: I did not at all mean to defend in any way the actions of the butcher.

    If the hashgachah did whatever it had to to satisfy the halachic requirements, they did nothing wrong either. The reality is that we live by D'var Hashem, zu halachah, not by our kishka -- that we eat or that produces the shtuyos people are posting.

    Like I said, almost every other hashgachah had michsholim, ever the "holiest" -- which one you thing that might be. The factor is, was the problem caused by their ignoring their halachaically-determined responsibility or not.

    When a hashgachah is given to oil and no one looks into the earlier contents of tankers that transport it, there was no basis in halachah for allowing the Hashgachah.

    And when Yudel Shain bashmutzes people left and right, contrives facts and fabricates stories, he has no neemanus. By the way, there are halachos that govern "eid echad b'hakchashah" and which establish teh laws of gevias eidus. There are even halachos (believe it or not) that determine that not everything that sounds problematic actually is... Yudel Shain ignores all those (or let's be melamed zechus that he never learned any of them).

    To clarify: I never had any personal dealings Shain nor do I care to. But I'ver seen public accusations that I know to be false... I saw his holier-than-thou certification on a non-Jewish Chinese resteraunt...so let no one turn this menuval into a hero so fast (by the way, his lies age quickly, on his website he claimed to have spoken to Rav Breslauer four years ago, now he claims eight.... do I hear sixty-five?

     
  • At 8:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Tonight at 9:00 there will be a shier regarding the halacho on Emes Lane From Rabbi Wosner
    And on Tuesday and Wednesday there will be “kashering keilim” at 12 Maple terrace from 10:00AM to 10:00PM

     
  • At 8:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I have a few questions:

    1. If Finkel was doing this for a while, why suddenly did people complain about the chicken and not earlier.

    2. Why did they complain to Hatzlacha when they know the buthcer is Finkel.

    3. When they broke into the refigerador was the mashgiach of the place present.

    4. Did Finkel claim that he was delivered these chickens by KJ or did he claim they were never delivered, someone just placed them there, or does he claim that he got it elswhere.

    5. Why is there no issue with the meat, if he is now nechshad for the chicken, there is a greater motivation to bring in treif meat, more money to be made.

     
  • At 9:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    to:
    8:18 PM


    And when Yudel Shain ... contrives facts and fabricates stories, he has no neemanus.

    can u back this up?
    the atrium caterer backs him up ,about this particuliar butcher.
    look at the price some people paid.

    no one can come up withh one fabricated story.
    if u know one post it here.

     
  • At 9:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Anon 8:26pm so far the from the Investigations the beef is accounted for I.e. It matches Invoices with what was sold by the computer system from Hatzluche and other methods that were checked, but the chickens so far don't jive at all.

     
  • At 9:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    THE MEETING BETWEEN ALL RABONIM IN MONSEY CHASIDISH AND LITVISH IS OVER THERE WILL BE LETTERS TOMORROW MORN. NOW JUST TO GIVE U A BRIEF GLIMPSE AS TO WHAT HAPPENED "THERE WAS NEVER ANY TRIEFE MEAT SOLD FROM HATZLOCHA" THE REST OF THE DETAILS WILL BE RELEASED TOMORROW

     
  • At 9:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    they shuld put him in חרם as soon as they can vos far a chutzpah is dase ?

     
  • At 9:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Never any treif meat or chicken?

     
  • At 9:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    to 9:18
    the stuff that was sold to caterers yeshivas etc don't show up on that i.e. example .
    make sure your investigaion is extensive ,covers all angles. based on what u wrote it's alredy full of holes.
    you matching invoices against store recordc.

     
  • At 9:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Hey 8:18
    You feel like a fool, 'cause Yudel Shain happens to be very careful with his accusations & conclussions. By the way in the 35 years that he's doing it he was always a few years ahead of everyone else & he was never wrong "yet".

     
  • At 10:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    What's going on? Anybody with knowledge from the meeting please step up? PLEASE?

     
  • At 10:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I would gladly eat from Shevach and put oi in my mouth, rather than talk all this Lashon hora and be mevazeh Talmidei Chachomin..

     
  • At 10:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    to; 9:59 PM

    i hope u r wrong.
    because that means some rabanim
    (at least one) that was at that metting in monsey today are/is not reliable as a rav hamichsir and as a person.
    ys claims that he lies if it will serve his need.

     
  • At 10:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    to:10:07 PM
    sounds like u already have .

     
  • At 10:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    annon 10:09.....
    belive me Timtum halev Is not equal to burning in HELL

     
  • At 10:41 PM, Blogger VOS IZ NEIAS said…

    The following kashrus alert is from Congregation Bes Tefilla.

    on September 3, 2006.
    Congregation Bes Tefilla has removed its kashrus certification from Shevach Quality Meats, Spring Valley, NY due to kashrus violations.
    There is an on-going investigation. Chicken legs from August 29 and August 30, 2006 that were labeled Kiryas Yovel or Vineland should not be used and any keilim used with them should be kashered.

     
  • At 10:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    to:10:23 PM
    what the hell are u talking about?
    warning some of a danger is l.h.
    being an idiot is a mitzvah?
    is there alav in nveila /
    how about trife?
    how about horse meat?
    like the koitsker said,
    "if i am forced to sit near a fool in gan eden,
    i'll still say nar blabt nar."
    i don't want to encourage l.h. or chas v'shalom even being involved in a machloke,
    but don't take a mitzvah and pervert it.
    by the way do u know when chazal speak about aveirot that brought the destruction of the bet hamikdash
    the are referring to the aveirot that the leaders of the generation committed not the general population.
    sinat chinam
    kamtza bar kamtza,
    etc.
    i would love to continue but i have a meeting at the tuition committee.
    talk of leadership.

     
  • At 10:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Kiryas Yovel
    who is this?

     
  • At 10:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To anon 8:18

    Besides your negative view on Rabbi Shain, can you clarify the points that you are trying to make???
    You don’t want to defend the actions of the butcher
    But what do you want?
    Get to point
    People complaint for weeks if not months about the meat that it is not salty, it is too bloody ETC
    Is this the “Dvar Hashem” that you mean??? if it is please explain ?

     
  • At 11:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Who is Bais Tfilla??

     
  • At 11:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I just came home from Shull in Monsey. There should be more updates tommorrow.

    There was a placard stating that there will be some droshes in Satmar tommorrow.

    I'm sure there is a reason from Shomayim why this happened here in Monsey. No you will not hear it tommorrow by the asifa of the rabbonim. The reason is that the leading rabbonim in Monsey are so corrupt and full of themseves (and no, I do not mean the baal hamachshir) which we don't see to this degree anywhere else. The Monsey yidden like Shoitem follow these morons.

     
  • At 11:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    i have always wanted to taste non-kosher chicken. does it really taste better. I have always wanted to move to monsey. too late now.

     
  • At 11:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I am not the big Tsadik but I hope I didnt eat his chicken or meat, after all, if i want to sin I'd rather do something else. Damn, it couldve been pork, lol kidding

     
  • At 11:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Anyone heared of this story?

    There is this other story, that a goyisha worker who was fired from hatzlocha grocery meat department wanted to get even with the owners therefore he smuggled in treif chickens and packaged it with kosher stickers. only when cutomers complained that the chickens had a different taste because it was unsalted was there an investigation.

     
  • At 11:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I just saw a tzettil in Satmar where reb Shimon Katz (became dayan a few years ago by his father) is now advertising that only his meat is good.

    It said Medakdikim should be machmir to eat and buy only his meat.

     
  • At 11:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Anan 11:11 PM
    To be a melamed zechus you dont have to make up a story, you can just say that you are not sure that the story was like paople say and thats it...

     
  • At 11:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To Anan 11:11 PM
    If he was fired then how would he package the chicken?! he isn't working there anymore, No?!
    And what about the cases chicken found overthere?! did he smuggle first in the cases, and then he smuggled himself in to print the labels and package it?!
    Get the facts first and then make the story!

     
  • At 11:29 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To the above Anony.

    You're right about some rabbanim in Monsey. I wouldn't trust some of them even not ruchnius. I would therefore not trust them with Ruchnius either.

    Here is what the Gemara says about it:

    "תניא רבי יוסי בן אלישע אומר: אם ראית דור שצרות רבות באות עליו, צא ובדוק בדייני ישראל , שכל פורענות שבאה לעולם לא באה אלא בשביל דייני ישראל, שנאמר: שמעו נא זאת ראשי בית יעקב וקציני בית ישראל המתעבים משפט ואת כל הישרה יעקשו..." (שבת קלט, ע"א)

     
  • At 11:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    thank you for yuor clarification

     
  • At 11:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    What am I trying to say? Let me try to keep Shain out of this for now (the moderator clearly chose to censor my post of details of one of his contivances)

    That there is a halachic threshhold for what a Rav Hamachshir is supposed to do. That threshold is not a guarantee against mich'sholim, it's a guarantee against going to Gehinnom.

    People who relied upon an apparently erliche Rav Hamachshir are onsim. If he did whatever checking he had to al pi halachah, that's all he needed to do.

    Hakadosh Baruch Hu runs the world, believe it or not. It's our job to follow the Shulchan Aruch.

    That's all not to say that we don't need to employ pikchus, but even so a michshol can happen. But the Rav Hamachshir would not lose his neemanus or standing. It appears that the other Rabbanim have not lost their ragrd for the man at this time either.

    Many hashgachos have had "durchfallen,"and many of those I'm know of involved a complete disinterest in keeping halachah, not a case of being misled by the "amasla" of a person who the Torah told us had -- at the time -- a chezkas kashrus. The case here was far more halachically understandable than most other cases.

    Soo cool the "tar and feather the Rav" rhetoric and learn some Yoreh Dei'ah (Siman Aleph is a good place to start -- eid echod b'hakchashah is not believed...)

    If you can't understand that, ask your Rav to explain it to you.

     
  • At 11:40 PM, Blogger myhumbleopinion said…

    Rabbi Zimmerman’s shul is not on Calvert Dr. he left the shul a few years ago because of a fight and made a separate shul on the next street I forget the name.

    Or he is a Bal Tfilah in Rabbi Zimmerman’s shul or in the KAJ shul on Calvert Dr.

     
  • At 12:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    later on today it will become clear that shevach never sold any treife chicken or meat. just wait for the letter to come out.

     
  • At 12:04 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    to:11:38 PM
    send him an e mail

     
  • At 12:05 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    how come the 20 rabonim of monsey are still looking for kal Breslouer's opinion do thay want him to be macshil another few thousand yiden with not kashering properly and than eat for the rest of thier lives in treifene keilim.

    what is going on with this monsey ra bonim instaed of stoping this kal from what he is doing thay are letting him lead the maracha thay are putting the ganov for a shomer.

    with this corupption no wonder it happend in monsey.

     
  • At 12:09 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    After doing much research & speaking to various Rabbonim I will try to inform all readers of the FACTS until this point.

    There is a grocery store in Monsey NY called Hatzlocha Grocery. They “sub-let” space to Shevach Butcher Store. Shevach buys wholesale chickens from Vineland and KJ (AKA Satmar) meats. Shevach then repackages the chickens and meats and writes [for example] “Shevach - Vineland” on the package. Hatzlocha Grocery carries the meats packaged by Shevach.

    Last week the owner of Hatzlocha Grocery made a family Simcha and in attendance was his brother-in-law who happens to be a manager at “K.J. Meats” (AKA SATMAR MEATS). His brother-in-law happened to ask him “where did you get these chickens from”? He answered “from my shelves”. The brother-in-law then asked him “how could Shevach be selling chickens if we (KJ Meats) stopped selling them product ?” The brother-in-law then said “he must have had old stock”.

    The owner of Hatzlocha also found out that Vineland had stopped selling him chickens as well.
    The owner of Hatzlocha went into the store the following morning and noticed that the shelves were freshly stocked. He approached the owner of Shevach & asked him “since Vineland & KJ Meats stopped selling you product, where are these chickens coming from?” The owner of Shevach answered that “I buy from some other distributors”.

    It was then verified that the owner was LYING and that he never purchased from those “other” distributors.
    The local Rabbonim were contacted, amongst them the Skverer Dayan who paskned that an immediate search of his refrigerators would be done.

    A search that was done that night turned up some shocking evidence: CASES OF NON-KOSHER CHICKENS!!

    Many of you might be wondering how that determination was made. There are a few reasons.
    #1-Kosher chickens are very yellow & these chickens were extremely pale.
    #2-Kosher chickens have feathers still on the skin at the time of purchase & these had none.
    #3-When a chicken is kashered all of the insides of the chicken are removed. These chickens were in possession of their kidneys still.
    #4-There was no trace of salt on the chickens.
    #5-No stamp or seal from any kosher butcher were on the boxes.

    After confronting the owner of Shevach Meats for an explanation, he admitted to the Rabonim this story: He claimed that those chickens that were found were sold to him by a truck driver of Nassau Distributors on the black market - but was reassured by the NON-JEWISH truck driver that the chickens were kosher; from a fire that Empire Chicken Company had recently had.

    This is where the story ENDS. All other stories that are going around are FALSE.

    There was a meeting which ended today at approximately 5:00 pm at which 20 Rabbonim from Monsey were in attendance. This included both Chassidih and Litvish Rabbonim. The purpose of the meeting was to issue a UNITED P’sak for the entire Monsey community. The P’sak will not be signed by the Rabbonim until Rabbi Breslauer reviews it.
    Unfortunately he is out of town and will be unable to see it until tomorrow morning.

    This is basically what the P’sak says: All chickens AND meats which were purchased on or before Tuesday and Wednesday (August 29th & 30th) cannot be used. Any Kailem (cooking utensils) in which chicken or meat which was purchased on those two days was cooked in must be Kashered! Anyone who cooked Chicken or meat which was purchased before those two days should consult their own Rov for a P’sak Halacha on what they should do.

    (The reason for consulting your own Rov as what one should do if chicken or meat which was purchased PRIOR to last Tuesday & Wednesday is based on a Machlokes between the Shach & the Taz as to when a person loses his “Chezkas Kashruth” in such a case.
    In addition, Hatzlocha Grocery is issuing a complete refund for all meat & chicken that is returned to the store no matter what the date.

    (In a related issue, a few people had been complaining that their chicken soups had been tasting bland for the past few weeks to which they were told “we are using low sodium”.)

     
  • At 12:21 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To the peace of trash above who speaks against a chushive rub Rabbi Breslauer burn in Hell!! Who are you?? Please start naming names of Monsey rabbanim who YOU THINK are better?

     
  • At 12:22 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Anon 11:46 states

    This is basically what the P’sak says: All chickens AND meats which were purchased on or before Tuesday and Wednesday (August 29th & 30th) cannot be used. Any Kailem (cooking utensils) in which chicken or meat which was purchased on those two days was cooked in must be Kashered! Anyone who cooked Chicken or meat which was purchased before those two days should consult their own Rov for a P’sak Halacha on what they should do.


    Sorry but unless I am very tired there is a contradiction in your paragraph. You first state "on and before" cannot be used and then you state that "before" one should consult a Rov.

     
  • At 12:24 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To anonymous 12:05am

    Do you call Weissmandel a kal too because they found Milchig in his pareve chocolates a few years ago?

     
  • At 12:29 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Please don't categorize all rabbanim in Monsey in the same boat.
    Yes, there is some corruption among those who consider themselves of the elite here in Monsey (i.e. those who give drushes every Monday and Tuesday).
    Yet, there are some other very chushive rabbanim too.
    I would say that most hechsheirim in Monsey are very good.

    Just my opinion.

     
  • At 12:43 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    to ann 12:21

    if you continue eat from his hacsher then we may meet there

     
  • At 12:44 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I think it should be formed a new Vaad Harabonim of Monsey and follow all Hecsherim like once a month.

    And the same in all other areas to make sure that the hasguches are ok.

    What do you think of this ?

    They can put a Tax on all hechsherim to pay for this vaad or like being a member of the Vaad.

    After such a story we really need to do Tshuvas Ha`mishkol

     
  • At 12:50 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Please TO ALL OF YOU
    don't mix up Micsholim (things that accidentally happen)
    by some / all hachshirim
    and THIS STORY that was a Pure negligence by who ever in charge
    not being their ( but took his monthly check )

     
  • At 1:03 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To 12:29

    You are 100 percent right they are rabonim with good hecshirim for example rabbi weissmandl who is a goen and boki in hecshirim and lhavdil breslouer who may be a big Talmud chacom but in kashrus he does not have a clue and was known that he never went to see what is being done under his supervision

     
  • At 1:08 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    WHO IS THIS INDIVIDUAL THAT ALLOWED THIS AND DID THIS? WILL WE NOT DIVULDGE AND SAY IT IS LOSHEN HORAH?? PEOPLE LIKE THESE SHOULD BE MADE PUBLIC!!

     
  • At 1:32 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To anon 12:09pm

    YOUR QUOTE "After confronting the owner of Shevach Meats for an explanation, he admitted to the Rabonim this story: He claimed that those chickens that were found were sold to him by a truck driver on the black market - but was reassured by the NON-JEWISH truck driver that the chickens were kosher; from a fire that Empire Chicken Company had recently had"

    DO YOU BELEIVE THIS NON-SENSE? how can a butcher with so many years experience of serving the frummest market say that he bought off the truck on the BLACK MARKET isn't the halacha BOSOR SH'NISALEM MIN HAEIEIN apply to a GOY especially if the boxes doesn't have any labels or markings and the KIDNEYS are still intact? what does REASSURED that it is kosher mean for an experienced butcher who knows how kosher chickens look like and knows the halachas?

    MY CONCLUSION: this story about buying off a truck is a baloney story.

     
  • At 2:28 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    A Vaad Harabonim of Monsey is the worst thing that can happen to a town like Monsey where everything is judged by politics.

    Bad idea.

     
  • At 9:14 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    there should be a website listing facts about all stores and their kashrus. no opinions but facts. does this store have a mashgiach temidi? what about the other store? we, the public, should demand that all butchers in town have a mashgiach temidi regardless of who the owner is. this type of thing is too important to let happen again.

     
  • At 9:43 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Anan 9:13 PM (with Caps)
    I'm still waiting for the P'sak that there was no Traifahs sold!

     
  • At 10:07 AM, Blogger baalbatish said…

    Again. what makes Rav Breslauer a chushiver yid? A job as a Rov? Looking serious all the time? Davening three times a day? Being machmir whenever possible?
    There are many people who are very choshuv but they are baaleibatim.
    Being a choshuver yid and a Rov are not the same.
    Rabbonus is a job. I think Beis Tefilo was his father's shul and he inherited it. Now he is in his 70's and he is a choshuver yid. Same thing will happen to all our fighting rebbes. When they will be old they will be considered "Fartzeitisher yidden".
    This scandal would have continued if Mr. Finkel would have paid his bills to KJ and Rabbi Breslauer would not have had a clue.
    If a regular citizen lives his life in an honorable manner and late in life he does a fraud or kills someone. He will rightfully be remembered as as a thief or murderer. This is regardless if his first 70 years were lived as an upstanding citizen.
    If this happened due to the negligence of Breslauer/Ullman then they are not choshuver yidden. What does it take to be "ois" Choshuver yid? Rav Kook was a choshuver yid but Satmar says he is not because he was a Zionist.
    Rabbi YB Soloveichik was a choshuver yid but the yeshiva world does not think so.
    If this story is true then Rav Breslauer will go down in history as a corrupt/negligent Rav.
    If you google the history of kashrus in America. There were major fights and there were many "choshuver" rabbonim who were corrupt with kashrus. If they would be around today, they would be our gedolei hador. They were corrupt and sold their religion for money.

    http://www.tzemachdovid.org/gedolim/jo/tpersonality/rjj.html

    http://www.ameinu.net/frontier/jf_1-00_adler.html

     
  • At 10:33 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    The entire hashogocho business is a farce.

    Ullman and Breslauer should both be out of the hashgacho business

     
  • At 11:06 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    there is also a problem
    that when you start pointing fingers on y he did not visited the place more often
    you could get an answer that even some rabbis that are considered
    of GOOD hacshrim
    are not showing up more then once or twice a yr

     
  • At 11:31 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    this story about buying off a truck is a baloney story the company was on it all the way with it Chasiish yingerman Salesman getting the none Kosher Chicken as Kosher it is hard to blive that a truck triver can get Chicken without any in Nassau Provisions to be in it ??

     
  • At 11:35 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    there is also a problem
    that when you start pointing fingers on y he did not visited the place more often
    you could get an answer that even some rabbis that are considered
    of GOOD hacshrim
    are not showing up more then once or twice a yr

     
  • At 11:44 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    This same story could've happened leider with other hechsheirim too. What about the other big supermarket in Monsey where the mashgiach is never there? The only reason I think the meat is kosher there is because it is full of heimishe yidden.

     
  • At 11:51 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I want to correct some inaccuracies in postings:
    1. Rav Breslauer of Bais Tefilla did NOT inherit the position from his father zt"l. His father was the Rov of Kehillas Yaakov of Washington Heights until his petirah.
    2. Rabbi Zimmerman's shul is called Bnai Ashkenaz and is on Cedar Lane (corner Blauvelt). MF was a Baal Tefillah there for Yomin Neorim, he was also past president of YSV

    Question for all the know-it-alls out there: Who is going to decide who has the "good" hasgocha? Until last week, EVERYONE assumed that Rav Breslauer's hasgocha was fine. Every one ate at simchos in YSV.

    Yes, it would be great if Monsey had a Vaad, but who is going to run it-- the chasidim or the mesnagdim? Lubavitch of Satmar etc.. etc..

    Unfortunately, hashgocha has become a business. Business means money.

     
  • At 11:51 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    TO YW 12:09 you are writing about FACTS well I am the son of one of the Rabbonim that attended the meeting your story is completly ignorant of some FACTS: you don't mention at all that when the owner of the butcher MF was woken up that night he gave 3 three seperate versions of where these chickens came from, he used names like Empire, and then Alle Processing (Meal Mart) and then he said Vineland and when there were no proof he said BLACK MARKET which doesn't have a paper trail for Invoices etc, the Rabbanim all agree that MF lost his "CHESKES KASHRUS" as to ANYTHING he said,the suppliers and distributors he dealt with ALL came forward and disclosed all their books and records as to what and what not they sold to MF it is also clear now that these chickens came from a Korean Poultry house which happens to be several blocks from ALLE (Meal Mart) wheather or not this has any relavence we will have to wait to see if any connection to the ALLE driver who delivered there.

     
  • At 12:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    The people in KJ have done worse things in the past.........
    Who says that the KJ Butcher actually did not ship to SHEVACH the whole time but did not "on purpus" give them invioces so that they can say after the fact that they did not sell them anything during the past three weeks?
    Fact: Kj allways shipped whole chikens in boxes and sent along KJ LABELS for SHEVACH to place on the wrapped packages.....
    Fact: the BOSS of HATZLUCHE is family with KJ Butcher..
    Fact: the BOSS of HATZLUCHE was fighting with SHAVACH (he wanted to get him out)
    Fact: why did H'rav Breslioer allow KJ to send along thousends of labels with out checking, the mashgiach should place the label on the chicken bottoms himself.....
    in summary: I am not so sure that this is thru, it simply does not make any sense, since he did not make so much money off the triefe meats...........
    I think that this smells like M.N.W. and A. Y. L. and many others, your comments please..

     
  • At 12:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    What gets me laughing is that R' Moshe Green whose sons are the owner of Hatzlucha Grocery in Monsey is going to hold a Mussar drusha today.

    Instead of it being vice versa. This whole place is upside down.

     
  • At 12:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    to:11:51 AM

    " EVERYONE assumed that Rav Breslauer's hasgocha was fine. Every one ate at simchos in YSV."

    it is many years that ys from lakewood recommended not eating at YSV.
    only if the meat/chicken is in a sealed case from the original supplier,
    did he consider relying on adler.
    how right he was.


    is hatslacha paying for the kashering?
    did he use those chickens at his simcha?

     
  • At 12:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I had to boil my childrens mouth cause they wear braces, it was so painful, but now they will know what it means to violate halacha.

    May the wrath of the Lord be on his enemies and may Amanadinajad boil in a barrel of kosher chicken fat.

     
  • At 12:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Anan 12:11 PM
    From which planet are you from?...
    1)Do you know that every butcher places the labeles by himself?! nobody has to send it, it's printed on the butchers printer!
    2), 3), 4), 5) I'll leave that for other people to answer!

     
  • At 12:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Anonymous 12:19 PM
    Sounds like you're trying to cover up the problem with Shevach and their Mashgichim and trying to say as if Hatzlucha should have been involved in the scandal!

     
  • At 12:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    This is not Mr. Finkel alone there is more people involved in this TREUFA scandal the supply house that sold him the Chicken as Kosher

     
  • At 12:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I did not say Hatzlucha was involved. All I sad was that the father of the owners of Hatzlucha is going to give a Mussar Drusha today.

    Please keep things in context.

     
  • At 12:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    ? is Mr. Moshe Finkel Story I don't see any rabbonim post his side of the story arrent we the public to know

     
  • At 1:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

     
  • At 1:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    1223
    i hope you didnt pour boiling water into your kids mouth
    nutjob!!!!!!!!

     
  • At 1:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    The Treifa Chicken dont tast good at all will keep KOSHER

     
  • At 1:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To the guy who is blaming KJ: Hey you never know from this guy maybe a conspiracy to shut down KJ's plant?? How more ridiculous can you be?

     
  • At 1:14 PM, Blogger baalbatish said…

    I heard that KFC is opening up in Monsey. Colonel Sanders is old and has a white beard. [Actually he's dead but that doesn't matter.]

     
  • At 1:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    This week is a sad week in Jewish History in Monsey this tragedy get all Jewish walks of life

     
  • At 1:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    people are frequently given more kovud from olam hazeh after they are in olam habah.
    so the colnel might be highly looked upon.

     
  • At 1:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    any knows ? this was
    Comment Deleted
    This post has been removed by the blog administrator.

    1:01 PM

     
  • At 1:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    the following email was sent to the membership of this major shul in the monsey community. similar emails are being sent to other large shuls in the area. IT lays down some TRUTH as to what's going on - vs. some of what has been said/posted here.

    Dear Members and Friends of Bais Torah:

    This note is regarding the discovery of unlabeled packages of chicken in Shevach Meats, located in Hatzlocha grocery. An email went out on Friday, 9/1/06, which discussed this matter in detail.

    ================================================== ====


    After some investigation and discussion with a number of Rabbonim, including Rabbi Breslauer who has overseen the Hashgocho on the butcher shop in Hatzlacha grocery, the following is advised at present: Anyone who bought chicken bottoms last Tuesday, August 29, or last Wednesday August 30 from Shevach meats at Hatzlacha grocery must discard those chickens.

    If you bought and prepared that chicken, all the utensils that came in contact with the chicken are in need of Kashering. If you are among those who need to Kasher their utensils you should contact me directly to discuss the proper procedure for all utensils.

    As of this time, any other meat or chicken from Shevach meats are not known to be a problem. However, I would advise that you refrain from eating any of the meat until the matter can be clarified further.

    If and when further information becomes available, I will pass that information on to all of you.

    Rabbi Yisroel Gottlieb
    Rov, Congregation Bais Torah

     
  • At 1:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    to:12:59 PM
    kosher suppliers are known from time to time ,when they have an over production of kosher ,to sell it on the general market ,usually to the same dist that buy their non kosher product.
    if u have access to this u can buy kosher food at significant savings.
    that's what he thought he was getting.
    he never willfully sold anything other than food from kosher suppliers.
    he tried to beat the system,because of the enormous pressures on raising a jewish family,especially in monsey.in a "every jew for himself "environment , sanctioned or ignored by what u call rabanim this can happen does happen will continue to happen in one way or another.
    how many of us were screwed by another.
    how many parents have gone to schools and said "i can"t",and were basically told "SCREW u"?!
    think about it.
    by the way can anybody explain why kosher is sooo?!
    why is a kosher slaughter house willing to pay a rav hamihshir/salesman $30,000.00 a month?!
    think about it,pray that u don't do something wrong to support the lifestyle forced on us.

     
  • At 1:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Dom comment Re: KFC Keep to the topic

     
  • At 1:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I saw on a lot of other blogs talk about Rabbi Yehuda Shain of Lakewood and warnings signs he gave years ago. I would like to know why aren't the monsey rabbanim calling him in as an expert? Why are they busy giving speaches and not doing the right thing? This is why it happens in the first place. The leadership in Monsey is so full of themselves.

     
  • At 1:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    1223 sounds like a child abuser to me.

     
  • At 1:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    The? Treife Chicken sold by Hatzolcha Grocery - Shevach Meat was from KJ meat (SATMAR) or KAJ as (Kahal Adas Yeshurn) dos any one know

     
  • At 1:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    anon-2 11:51,
    "Question for all the know-it-alls out there: Who is going to decide who has the "good" hasgocha? Until last week, EVERYONE assumed that Rav Breslauer's hasgocha was fine. Every one ate at simchos in YSV."
    ----------------------------------

    That's exactly the point. If Rabbi Breslauer cannot be trusted, then who could we trust? We rely on the Rabbonim. How am I supposed to judge what is a good hecsher or not. Some say OU is no good, other's say Yoker is no good. Now, Chug Chsam Sofer is no good. Pinchas Horowitz - no good. How are we suposed to know? A vaad will never work. There will always be an upstart that will open his own hechsher. There is too much money involved.

     
  • At 2:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    anonymous 1:30pm
    1. i think you meant dumb not dom.
    knowing how to spell is a good idea before you insult other people.
    2. the kfc comment was meant as irony.

     
  • At 2:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    those of us that are a little older remember a world before kosher certification was a big issue.
    it was a better world.
    everybody knew the people that owned the stores where they shopped.
    you only shopped from a butcher or deli where you would eat in the owner's house.
    the owner, or another close family member was always in the store if it was open.
    the owner was responsible to his customers, friends and family.
    if anybody is looking for meaning beyond these facts they are looking in the wrong places.
    stores are too big and impersonal.
    shuls are too big and impersonal.
    cheder are too big and impersonal.
    tzedukah organizations are too big and impersonal.
    klal yisroel is suffering because of growth without leadership.

     
  • At 2:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Can we elect a chief Rabbi Monsey with a Monsey Hacsher lets pay him from the community not from the establishments no conflicting of interest?

     
  • At 2:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    For those of you who said that we can not get a vaad together for hasgochas, you are all wrong. We have a vaad for the eiruv & and mikvah. The rabbonim that serve on this vaad are both chasideshe & litvishe. Let's think positive and say it CAN BE done.

     
  • At 2:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    to:1:58 PM
    this is exactly the point
    don't assume, don't rely.
    get involved ask.
    and if u make a simcha and people rely on u ,make sure u have your mashgigich there . if not go elsewhere.those that have nothing to hide welcome this.
    when was the last time at a simcha u asked whose hechsher,whose meat whose products?
    who is resposibile for the meat products
    /
    an organization,who is responsible there.
    who is kj?who is kaj ?, who ?

    what does the rav hamachsir know about all this ?
    who is he relying on?
    u'll get disillusioned very fast.did u ever poke you nose in the kitchen to see who is doing the cooking? checking for bugs?
    who is a bigger machshil the guy that serves u lettuce or this?
    think.
    when was the last time u checked ahead of lettuce?
    why is it too hard ? did u ever try to learn how?
    easy street Judaism.
    before u go for a minor medical procedure how many so called experts d u call?
    which office d u u call ?
    kashrus, tolaim, nothing?
    we get what we deserve because that's what we really want .
    someone to give us advice.make our decisions. someone to raise our children,
    and now someone to burn in hell for us.
    a great wake up call this time of the year.
    were is the snooze button?

     
  • At 3:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    TO foodlover said...

    A)RABBI SHAIN CAN BE REACHED HE'S LISTED IN THE LAKEWOOD PHONE DIRECTORY
    B)I KNOW HIM PERSONALLY
    HE STANDS BY WHAT HE SAYS
    AND HE HAS THE GUTS TO SAY THE TRUTH WHICH IS UNFORTUNATLEY LACKING AMONG THE POWERS THAT BE WHO CONTROL KASHRUS TODAY
    AND YES THE TRUTH OFTEN HURTS AND THOSE AFFECTED HAVE A PROBLEM WITH Y S
    c)AS SYMS SAYS I QUOTE "OUR BEST CUSTOMERS ARE THE EDUCATED CONSUMER" WE THE PUBLIC WHO PAY EXTRA FOR SUPPOSEDLY KOSHER PRODUCTS HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW IF SOMETHING ISNT SO KOSHER AND WE OR OUR RAV WILL DECIDE IF WE WANT TO BE SOMEICH ON KULOS WHICH ARE MANY TIMES USED WHEN LOTS OF $$$ STANDS TO BE LOST ETC
    AND IF IT TAKES A COURAGEOUS PERSON LIKE RABBI Y S TO COME OUT AND ALERT OR ALARM THE PUBLIC SO BE IT WE OWE RABBI YS A BIG THANK YOU !!!

     
  • At 3:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    The best solution in this terrible situation is to form a "kellah" kashrat (i.e. Flatbush)where all kehilaos/yeshivas join in and hire mashgichim indepently to check up on stores,shcitos, caterers etc. (Thst's in addition to the current hasgacho, so nobody gets hurt).

    It did a lot of good in cities that established one and the way monsey grew b"h it's imperative something be done now before the next scandal pops c"v

     
  • At 3:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To the person above asking why the rabbonim in Monsey won't bring in an expert like Rabbi Yehuda Shain. You first have to understand how the politics works here between the rabbonim in Monsey. There are a few rabbonim that try to control everyting in Monsey (for Kovud reasons). Anything not going through their Da'as Torah is treif! Even more treif than the meat that was sold at Shevach.

     
  • At 3:23 PM, Blogger Yudel Shain said…

    to 8:18 PM
    I challenge to publicly post anything you say you know is false what Yudel Shain said or posted.

     
  • At 3:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    baalbatish said...
    A)REB YAKKOV YOSEF ZTL THE FIRST CHEIF RABBI IN OUR OWN NYC DIED OF A HEART ATTACK AS A RESULT OF HIS TRYING TO CHANGE THE KASHRUTH AT BUTCHERS IN THE EARLY 1900'S WHICH WAS SORELY LACKING
    B)I DONT KNOW WHY THIS FORUM IS TURNING PERSONAL
    WHAT SHOULD COME OUT IS A RADICAL CHANGE ACROSS THE BOARD IN HOW KASHRUTH IS RUN
    BUT ATTACKING INDIVIDUALS WONT CHANGE THE STATUS OF KASHRUTH

     
  • At 3:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    ניסיון הערב רב לפני הגאולה

    מנהיגים מהערב רב ישלטו חמישה במינם [סימנם נג"ע ר"ע] ויבנו בתי כנסיות, רק כדי להתגבר בכך על העם

    מובא בזוהר בראשית: וחמש מינין אנון בערב רב ואנון [סימן נג"ע ר"ע] נפילים גבורים ענקים רפאים עמלקים... ומאלין שאשתארו מנהון בגלותא רביעאה, אנון רישין בקיומא סגי ואנון קיימין על ישראל כלי חמס, ועלייהו אתמר (שם ו'): "כי מלאה הארץ חמס מפניהם..." "גבורים" מינא תליתאה עלייהו אתמר: "המה הגבורים... אנשי השם", ואנון מסטרא דאלין דאתמר בהון (בראשית י"א): "הבה נבנה לנו עיר ונעשה לנו שם", ובנין בתי כנסיות ומדרשות ושויין בהון ספר תורה ועטרה על רישוי ולא לשמא דייה אלא למעבד לון שם, הדא הוא דכתיב: "ונעשה לנו שם", ובסטרא אחרא מתגברין על ישראל דאנון כעפרא דארעא וגזלין לון...

    פירוש הזוהר: המתמנה על הצבור ומנהיגם ברחמים, בידוע שנשמתו מכנסת ישראל, אבל המתמנה בכלי חמס, נשמתו משורש נחש. הבונים מוסדות תורה לקנות להם שם ולהתגבר בזה על העם, למשול עליהם ביד חזקה, המה ה"גבורים" מהערב רב. "... וזה להם האות כי כל המתמנה על הצבור ומנהיגם ברחמים ונותן נפשו עליהם, בידוע, שנשמתו מכנסת ישראל, כי מרחמם ינהגם. אמנם המתמנים על ישראל בכלי חמס, נפשותיהם באה משורש נחש... כי לא יבנו הם בתי כנסיות ובתי מדרשות רק להיות חרב בידם לעשות חפצם ורצונם להתגבר על העם..." ("כתם פז" מהגאון המקובל האלוקי עיר וקדוש כמורנו הרבי רבי שמעון לביא זצוק"ל בעל מחבר זמר "בר יוחאי" בדף פ"ה)

     
  • At 4:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    ננננננננח נח נח ננננחחמן

     
  • At 4:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To all of u stop backing "rabbi" breslouer he is a machshil es horabim and start thinking of yourself kasher all the keilim and from now on watch what u take in in your house or what u eat

    P.S. if u back rabbi brelouer and u still eat questionble food it automaticly goes on your own risk

     
  • At 4:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    איז דא דער לא תגורו מפני איש צו זאגען דעם אמדיגען אמתאן קיין מורא אין חשבונות?

     
  • At 4:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Stop with the CAPS, enough already, stop it. You are driving me NUTS.

    Thank you

     
  • At 4:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    i hope the person boiling his kids mouth isnt the one who is looking for vengence on the butcher

     
  • At 4:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    There are 2 issues here

    One is about the meat, meaning if it was treifa or not, and if you need to kasher you rkeilim, and from when you have to be machmir etc.

    I am sure nobody will pasken these sheilos by themselves, everybody will call his own rav for a psak halaocha.
    The second issue is about the individuals, if any body was to be blame for it, and to what extant, and if we have to take any action, or if its muter to attack either by writing negetivre about them, on anyone involved in this case.

    I feel that the second issue is a “Bein Odom Lechveiro” sheila, and we got be much more carefull about this then “Bein Odom Lamokem”. In fact, its much more difficult to do tshuva on “bein odom lachveiro” than beim odom lamokem”. Bein odom lachvero if you were wrong, you have to apologize the man in personal, until then you may pray a whole day its not going to help you.
    Like the Mishna says, “Eveiros Shbein Odem Lechvero Ein Yom Kipur Mechper Od Sheratze Es chvero.”
    Now if an individual that you want to attack is also a “talmud chochem” even only a sofek, that’s much more dangerous, its like playing with fire.
    Without going into detail, anybody who feels that he has to attack anybody involved in this case, please consult your same dayen that guided you about your keilim and your other sheiles. Everything that we do no matter what has to be according to the halach. It might be that the dayen will say you may attack maybe he’ll say you must attack, the point is because it’s such a delicate sheila, consult with your famous dayen. The same that you asked about kashering your keilim or Etc. if its mutter or not.
    We need the same Daas Toraha on this sheila then on the other issue.

    So far the only letter that I saw, was regarding the issue number 1, about the kashres, nobody gave his psak regarding how we should deal with any individual
    So its chodesh Elul lets do what we have to do, and let hashem do what he has to do
    Don’t forget, Rosh Hasono is around the corner less than 3 weeks, and anybody who is doing on his own hands “Bein Odom Lechveri” Yom Kipur will not be mechaper until he apologize in person, specially if it done an blog like this.”brabim” and specially on a Talmud Chuchem.

     
  • At 4:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    in my opinon the only way to avoid this problem in the futher is to mark avry box with a traking # wicth the mashgiack can confairm by compu with the co. we live in a hy teck world it is time to apply it lshem shumiim

     
  • At 4:33 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Anyone has an update re the
    letter that was to come out
    TODAY with a pasak on what to do ??

     
  • At 4:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

  • At 4:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

  • At 4:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    To the 3:12 PM anon expert: Just so you know, Kehilah Kashrus in Flatbush had a BIG michshoil last year when they caught a store (formerly Kosher Spot) selling non-glatt meat as glatt.

     
  • At 4:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I hope anon 12:23 was just making a sick joke - but teachers in Monsey should look out for children with burns to the mouth and act resposibly (discuss with your posek about reporting) if there is cause for concern..

     
  • At 4:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I can not understand what some of you say about the Rabbonim of Monsey being selfish and thinking only about the Kovud. It's definitely not 100% true, we rely on those Rabbonim with all our Shailoos, and we may not talk like this. I will agree that a few of them are exceptions, which I don't use them for my Shaillos, but all the others are really Erliche and Chushive Yidden who thinks Hashem and not themselves!

    Heck, the whole meeting was to help US, the Monsey community. Why would they give away from their time being involved in such a complicated case? It's not for fun, is it? It's just to help out all the people, and tell them, according to halacha, how to take care of the problem, and of course, make sure this is not happening once again IY"H.

    I would also not Ba'Shaigetz Mr. M.F. before I know more details.

    אל תדין את חברך עד שתגיע למקומו

    I have no idea what was his Nisyonos, and what in the world went thru his head when he decided doing such a terriblr thing. I am not fighting my own nisyonos good enough, so I can't blame him... If it will be clear that he did it for no good reason, BeMaizid, then maybe it's Mutter to talk on him and blame him. But until then - nothing. And besides that, that's not gonna help us. We have to do Tshuva ourselves that something like this was able to happen to us!

    Do you think he deserves to be Stuck on both worlds, buZeh ubaBoh? is there any Tshuva available for him?

     
  • At 4:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    anon 12:23 is one hundred percent right, i also asked my posek and he told me the same thing, the entire house including all my eight children except the two that are younger from two years, we all burned our mouths with bowling hot water three times for four and a half minutes, the water has to boil in pot for 20 minutes, and only that way is your teeth and gums kusher.

     
  • At 5:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    OYE VEY now that I think about this some more its really twisting my kishkus
    This is mamish a disgrace. And to the Bhama that boiled their kids mouth
    SHAME on you. You need to boil your self. This is unacceptable I am speechless my kishkus are in my mouth and I don't think they are kosher anymore.

     
  • At 5:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Anonymous 4:55. You are a sicko. Do you do this before Pesach also? Who is your Rov? are all of you child abusers??

     
  • At 5:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Where did he get the meat from????

    we know it wasn"t that and it wasn"t that. so from where was it?Is he around? alive? did anybody question him? or just trief trief????

    ps
    the 3:12 kealah idea is still the best being circled here? yes, the holes can be fixed!!!!! but let's do something besides yanking!

     
  • At 5:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    TO ANN 4:35 & 4:36

    TO ANN 4:35 & 4:36

    THESE LETTERS
    from Rav Wissmandel
    are NOT today's
    these are from Friday
    there was to come out a
    letter today from ALL rabonim
    and so far I have not seen it

     

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